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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Which Author??
      #35239 - 30/07/05 01:55 PM

When you think about Double Rifles and the authors who promote them who comes to mind? When you mention the 270 you think of Jack O'Conner. Big Bores Elmer Kieth.

Who is it for Doubles? Taylor??

Why??

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Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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iwantadouble
.300 member


Reged: 06/06/05
Posts: 104
Loc: Gallatin County, Montana
Re: Which Author?? [Re: mickey]
      #35241 - 30/07/05 04:07 PM

In my opinion, Taylor, because of the extremely limited amount of exposure to doubles that I've had, his work has been the best at breaking down the rifles, the cartridges, and the game taken with them.

A close second would probably Ross Seyfried, though.

--------------------
500 is a nice round number, either followed by "Nitro Express" or by "cubic inch displacement".


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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Which Author?? [Re: mickey]
      #35246 - 30/07/05 11:47 PM

I think Taylor in terms of longest lasting influence. But even though his book was written in the 1940s Americans did not seem to get bitten by the double bug until the late 1980s or so.

Perhaps, at the risk of being controversal, I'd also suggest Craig Boddington. He is one of the only "popular" gun writer who writes frequently on double rifles (I'm not forgetting Ross Seyfried and Sherman Bell here, but they are not as commonly known in the general hunting press). Think back to his book "Shots at Big Game," where he actually talks about double rifles in a general hunting rifle shooting book. What other major gunwriter writing for the general hunting public would do that in the late 1980s? Also his puplication of "Safari Rifles" was right in 1990 right when the double rifle craze just started so I imagine he had some influence there.

Just some thoughts...

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In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Which Author?? [Re: iwantadouble]
      #35249 - 31/07/05 12:21 AM

I believe Taylor is my favorite, where double rifles are concerned. He was handicaped by the time when he lived, and at the mercy of ammo manufacturers as to the quality of bullets, and powders. Still he understood the double rifle, and it's value when hunting dangerous game! I don't believe anyone had more experience shooting dangerous game with a double rifle than Taylor.

If Taylor were alive today, he would likely have some different opinions because of the quality bullets available, and the very excelent powders to push them. However, the actual use of the double would be the same, I think!

Elmer, had, and used some double rifles, but other than knowing the value of two quick shots, from a large bore double, his leanings were for other types of rifles. He was one who liked a single trigger on a double rifle, and is one of the places I disagree with Elmer! My thinking is the double rifle is two things, and both have to do with reliability. The double rifle is "TWO" indipendant rifles on the same stock. A broken "SINGLE" trigger on a double rifle, renders the double to the status of a baseball bat. Not what one would want when faced by a Cape Buffalo looking to collect the MONEY YOU OWE HIM! The other is the very quick, and aimed second shot,to a degree, not posible with any bolt rifle. A broken single trigger takes that away as well, if it goes south on the first shot. Taylor understood this, and did not use single triggers on his doubles.

There are many folks around who can write about the proof marks, lock design, and rarity of one type or the other, or the dollar value of one maker over another. These things, however, are things one can learn with ever even owning a double rifle, and certainly not haveing to shoot dangerous game with one! Taylor had knowledge in both areas, so he is my favorite!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Which Author?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #35258 - 31/07/05 01:13 PM

Mac,
Interesting thoughts on single triggers but the fact that world class clay target shooters rely on single triggers for their competition double guns would surely suggest that quality single trigger mechanisms do not suffer from reliability problems.

Also two quality seperate trigger mechanisms on a two trigger double does not guarantee that if one fails the other will always still operate.
Jack Lott had total failure of a Holland Royal when part of one lock broke and rendered the rifle unshootable.


If you have a read of page 326 of African Rifles and Cartridges you will see that Taylors non use of single trigger doubles was NOT because he thought them to be any less reliable than 2 triggers.

Sutherlands Elephant tally was documented where Taylors was not, and as Taylor points out himself, Sutherland would not have continued to use the single trigger system if he was in any doubt about its reliability.

Now regarding authors, I dearly wish that Fletcher Jamieson had achieved his goal of writing a book dealing with his own experiences of African dangerous game hunting.




Edited by 4seventy (31/07/05 09:47 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40296
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Which Author?? [Re: 4seventy]
      #35268 - 01/08/05 01:31 AM

I like double triggers because that is what I started with and have always used. I do not yet know how well I will handle a single trigger double rifle and shotgun. It will be a considerable forced learning experience I believe.

***

Even though he also hunted with bolt actions Corbett in India probably got me started with interest.

Later Taylor, Aussie Dawkins also spring to mind. Finch-Hatton, Blixen, Burger.

A lot of the internet forums' fanatics also got me hooked.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Which Author?? [Re: 4seventy]
      #35276 - 01/08/05 05:16 AM

In reply to:

Mac,
Interesting thoughts on single triggers but the fact that world class clay target shooters rely on single triggers for their competition double guns would surely suggest that quality single trigger mechanisms do not suffer from reliability problems.




4seventy, what you say is true, and I think single triggers are very reliable, and have several on double barrel shotguns. However, most clay target matches are held on very clean ranges where contestants have a truck load of spare parts, and tools to make their guns right, if they don't simply change to another shotgun. Addtionally, if the trigger does fail, then the gun is out of commission totally. One other thing, not many clay targets stick a horn up your butt if you gun doesn't work.

In reply to:

Also two quality seperate trigger mechanisms on a two trigger double does not guarantee that if one fails the other will always still operate.
Jack Lott had total failure of a Holland Royal when part of one lock broke and rendered the rifle unshootable.





The above being true, simply means NOTHING is beyond breaking, and anything that breaks where parts are in the same general place, parts from one can get into the works of the other. Lets look at the two subjects being argued here. If the single trigger breaks, is the rifle likely to shoot either barrel?, Absolutely not! If one trigger breaks on a double trigger rifle is it most likely that the other trigger will work? Absolutely it is! Addtionally, the parts getting together on a double trigger is far more likely on a SIDE LOCK ROYAL, than on a field grade rifle that is made on a boxlock action where the parts are seperated more. In this case it all boils down to if the trigger breaks on a single trigger double rifle, the rifle is out of service, if a trigger breaks on a double rifle with two triggers it is far more likely the rifle will still opperate as a single shot! I don't see how anyone can deny that fact!

In reply to:

Sutherlands Elephant tally was documented where Taylors was not, and as Taylor points out himself, Sutherland would not have continued to use the single trigger system if he was in any doubt about its reliability.




I'm sure Southerland knew what he was doing, but it still does not alter the fact that "IF" that single trigger had broken at the wrong time Southerlands bag numbers might not be so large, and Taylor's opinion might have been far different on the subject. Taylor also states on that same page the Southerland hunted in far more open, and hence cleaner conditions that Taylor did. The fact is, Taylor did not use single triggers on his doubles, and all, or most, were made to order for him.

In reply to:

Now regarding authors, I dearly wish that Fletcher Jamieson had achieved his goal of writing a book dealing with his own experiences of African dangerous game hunting.





I too, would have liked to read stories from the HOSS'S MOUTH on Fletcher's exploits! Too bad he died , so young, in that well!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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k80
.333 member


Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
Re: Which Author?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #35285 - 01/08/05 09:58 AM

In the shotgun world there is no
better single trigger than the
Krieghoff. My Kreighoff double
rifle has double triggers. It is
a good thing the front trigger is
very strong.




--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas


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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Which Author?? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #35307 - 01/08/05 07:08 PM

Mac,
yeah it's true that clay target shooters are not using single triggers in life threatening situations.
But, olimpic shooters for example are competing for the gold medal and any trigger failure during the comp is going to cost them big time.
These guys shoot a hell of a lot of rounds and IMO there is no way they would want single triggers if there was any reliability issue.


By the way, howz that Merk 470 going?
Did you get a set of dies for it?










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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Which Author?? [Re: 4seventy]
      #35333 - 02/08/05 08:50 AM

In reply to:

By the way, howz that Merk 470 going?
Did you get a set of dies for it?





Can you believe I haven't even fired it yet, and I bought another double last week! Really, I've been quite busy, with family functions all around the USA, and hosting company at my home, and haven't had time to mess with it!

I haven't gotten a set of dies yet, but it isn't too urgent, as I got 5 boxes of Federal Factory ammo with the rifle!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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