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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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Kynoch
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 40
Loc: Iowa, United States
6 dram 8 bore?
      #352085 - 07/04/21 01:23 PM

I started loading for a light (13lbs) smooth bore 8 bore double ball gun. The barrels are nitro proofed Damascus. I thought that I would start with a 6 dram equivalent of Blue Dot (55gr) just to get a feel for it. Left/right looks pretty good. (Please ignore the .30cal holes). I loaded four rounds for L/R pairs but the last round wouldn’t fit as the belt of the industrial hull wasn’t sized down far enough. (I knew that I should have checked). Regardless, I’m encouraged given the first load on the first outing
Target I’ve always heard that the 8 bores were 8 to 10 dram ball guns. Did they also load 6 dram? I see that they did for shot, no longer too surprised by the exceptions. If this turns out to be a six dram ball gun, I’ll put it in the same class as my 2” 12 bores (rifle and shot). Thanks as always. K

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 6 dram 8 bore? [Re: Kynoch]
      #352090 - 07/04/21 03:18 PM

Impressive holes in the paper. Pity the fourth round could not be fired. Good luck with it and hope it works out and someone knowledgeable can reply.

BTW can you add a location to your profile? It is a requirement of the forums for many years. USA is fine for US based members. In Australia, I expect the state as well, bit not for the USA. It is needed for various reasons as an admin ie ensuring known laws are not breached where it can impact on me. I can in any case look up any posters IP address. But the location is a mandatory field.

A member can PM and explain why they do not want to do so. One member has done this in the past and accepted.

2005, one of our early original members! Well done.

Hope your 8-bore shoots well. An impressive piece from the sounds of it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Kynoch
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 40
Loc: Iowa, United States
Re: 6 dram 8 bore? [Re: NitroX]
      #352093 - 07/04/21 03:57 PM

Thanks Nitro, should be updated now. Yeah, since 2005 but only 35 posts! I contributed where I can, but I tend to listen and learn

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 6 dram 8 bore? [Re: Kynoch]
      #352117 - 08/04/21 06:11 AM

Hi Kynoch - looking pretty good. Could be more powder, as in an 8 to 10 dram equivalence might give you the elevation and parallel shooting you are undoubtedly looking for.
Greener's #9th Edition shows 10 drams and on page 691:

"The 8 bore of Messrs. Holland, weighing 17 pounds 8 ozs., and fired with 10 drs.- a very light charge for this calibre, some of the more renowned elephant hunters using as much as 12 and 14 grs. this bore."

Note, these were rifled guns and heavier. Another weight listed from the chart page 689 lists:

Bore: .835", 10 drms., 862 bullet grains, 16 pounds weight of gun, 85.0 pounds recoil, mv 1,654fps, 100yds. 1,193fps, 150yds. 1,038fps - energy muzzle 5,232, 100yds. 2,720

Since a round ball .835gr. weight in pure lead is 875gr., we can assume the load listed above, the ball/bullet was an alloy/hardened, slightly.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: 6 dram 8 bore? [Re: DarylS]
      #352130 - 08/04/21 08:57 AM

Hi Kynoch,
Interesting gun you have there, petty light at 13lbs, I would guess that it was not meant as a 10 Dram gun, that load if black powder in a 13lb gun would really rock your world.

Curious to know who the maker was, what is the barrel length, and the chamber length.

My G.E. Lewis 8 Bore rifle is 15 1/2 lbs and is a real thumper on the shoulder with a full 10 Dram load. Most 8 Bores for the 8-10 Dram loads seem to have been 15-18lbs.
About 30 years ago I had a Greener 8 Bore "Cape Gun" (right tube smooth, left tube fully rifled) that weighed 13 lbs. It did take 10 Drams to bring the rights/lefts together with round balls......& it was a real kicker.

The beauty of your gun is that if it shoots nice groups at 6 Dram equivalent of Blue Dot then you are well set for fun shooting without too much of a beating.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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EDELWEISS
.375 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: 6 dram 8 bore? [Re: 3DogMike]
      #352132 - 08/04/21 09:24 AM

Bro just want to say that THIS thread (and a few others) inspired me to pull my 10ga Mercury shotgun from the back of the safe and see how well itll shoot slugs. Its a single shot that I bought several years ago with the idea of "building" a "big bore" rifle using brass shotshells and round ball over BP. Im sure it was meant to be a goose gun with a 30" barrel but I see it with a 24-26 inch barrel

Over the years, I bought a crimping tool and some brass cases; but never much more. My plan was to add a quarter rib with a single or double express rear sight and a ivory flip up front sight. Life got in the way and it sat in the safe.

Reading that your load would be light encouraged me. This is meant to be Big bore Hog gun. Please excuse the thread drift but thanks for the inspiration.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 6 dram 8 bore? [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #352139 - 08/04/21 11:45 AM

Probably wouldn't come up in a search, but we talked a lot, years ago, on black powder and smokeless loads with round balls in 12 bores. The same methods would work in a 10.
I used the base cups cut from trap wads to sit under the ball, with card or filler wads taking up the excess space, when using smokeless loads, with another base cup wad, cup down on the powder if smokeless) and if BP loads, just the hard card wads between the plastic cup and the powder.
If you don't have or can't get 10 bore plastic cup wads (Ballistic Products might have them - or some other outfit in the States) you can use hard cards with the centre punched out. A 3/8" punch would do. The idea is to have a wad that will centre the ball in the bore.
Worked for me.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: 6 dram 8 bore? [Re: DarylS]
      #352141 - 08/04/21 12:12 PM

Shoot whatever is best for you, these old guns are an anachronism anyway (a .338 is probably better today?!!)

My 8 bore DB H&H ball gun is 16ish lbs and not unpleasant to shoot at 10 drams BP (posted somewhere here), good enough to go with Selous to Africa in !878!

I shot a member's single 18 lbs 4 bore with 100 grains Blue dot in Alaska a few years ago at Cal Pappas' shoot and that was a serious kicker but that is what you want in a real life situation

I also have a very lightweight 10 bore H&H Paradox which is a delight to shoot with light loads

Good luck to you and all shooters of these lovely historical guns

TH

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4198
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 6 dram 8 bore? [Re: TH44]
      #352186 - 09/04/21 08:19 AM

Well done Kynoch!
If it works & shoots (regulates) to the sights then you haven't done too badly at all!
No mess using Blue Dot, BP on the other hand will be a challenge if you go down that route.
Just curious, what are the proof loads on your flats or in your case if you have one????

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Kynoch
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 40
Loc: Iowa, United States
Re: 6 dram 8 bore? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #352196 - 09/04/21 10:35 AM

Thanks for the comments everyone. The gun was built by (likely sold by) SW Silvers of Silvers pad fame. (More pictures added to the original link). The barrels are 28” with 3-1/4” chambers. Agreed, work up the load to the gun. For how I will use it stateside, I’m pretty happy if it regulates with a lighter load given its weight. If the targets continue to hold up, the left and right are just fine. It will be interesting to see if an increase in the load will bring barrels closer together up/down. Thanks again.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 6 dram 8 bore? [Re: Kynoch]
      #352197 - 09/04/21 11:19 AM

Plain indeed, but lovely just the same and in SUPER condition.
With that ramped front sight, I think this gun was also meant for ball as well as 1,094 grains of shot(2 1/2oz).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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