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Rothhammer1
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Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: British Mannlichers [Re: themauserkid]
      #351284 - 10/03/21 02:09 PM

Quote:

This is the first takedown I’ve had so I’m not super familiar with comparing factory work against a converted takedown. You can tell the rear screw hole was filled in and filed flush if you look closely, not sure if this is how the factory did this or not. I got this from a friend of mine who’s on the board of the MCA, I’ll compare it against his 1910 takedown next time I’m over.




Have you any photos of the receiver (from all angles) and filled in hole?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: 3DogMike]
      #351295 - 11/03/21 02:25 AM

Quote:

Geez......a bit grumpy aren't we.........guessing need a bigger sandbox.
Not had your morning coffee yet?
- Mike






Quote:

Rothhammer

Im not wanting to start a war here.
I may well be alone here. However Im getting just a little tired of your same regurgitated pictures...in particular that of your purported grandfather and his Leopard.
It is no doubt a wonderful photo, in fact I have intentions of asking you if I might use it in an article Im writing.

I understand new members may not have seen it, however how about just referring them to one of your muliple links containing the photo, if you want them to view it.

Indeed I do have a number of Mannlichers with British provenance, and members are most welcome to enjoy them via the achvive system that John has created and maintains so well
Lastley those examples are in my personal collection and owned by me. I rarely post for the sake of posting, and when I do its hopefully interesting and original material.
Anyone can lift pictures off the internet and you have done a great job in bringing to our attention the phleroa of information contained in the Stoeger catalogue...thank you.

Speaking of original material. I note from other forums that you are in pocessions of this rifle.
So, when might we expect to see actual pictures of the rifle?

Take care of yourself

Eric




I typed something else, then decided I didn't want to start a war, and get in between. Ha ha, there is a saying about there sorts of "... but ..." comments.

Firstly I see the thread opener has thanked the poster for his inputs. That says it all.

I have no problems in seeing Rothammer's Granddad's photos and the other images whenever relevant. He no doubt is proud of his GD's hunting career. I would be, mine shot foxes and rabbits! Not leopards and similar.

Eric, just scroll on past of stuff that bores you.

But please DO post some of that material you allude to. Material, images and good information make the forums better and more interesting. Yes anything on the net anywhere WILL get copied and pasted, tag it so at least the tag remains OR they have to edit the image to remove the tag. Bastards. Ha ha, I remember searching for Mannlicher images, finding some on a "african forum" which tags everything on their forum, and THEN finding out all of those images came from NE's own archives, pinched by someone to report over there ...

So it goes.

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: NitroX]
      #351310 - 11/03/21 08:38 AM

Quote:

Bastards. Ha ha, I remember searching for Mannlicher images, finding some on a "african forum" which tags everything on their forum, and THEN finding out all of those images came from NE's own archives, pinched by someone to report over there ...

So it goes.





We shan't mention whom... :



That particular 'site does do that, which sticks in my craw a bit, as well.

I pilfer images from the 'net on a regular basis to inform myself and for use to illustrate posts. As John said, once posted they're 'out there'. I don't agree with watermarking another's images, however, particularly without consent. They never asked me (I suppose it could be somewhere in 'fine print' of their policies - haven't checked).

For any whose images I have used who take umbrage, I do apologize. It would be more conscientious of me to caption each with attribution of source.

That said, I do not post for profit, merely to inform and to freely exchange information. These boards would get boring pretty durned quick if they only contained our own images limited to our own firearms and information that we already know.

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paradox_
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #351312 - 11/03/21 10:42 AM

Thanks Brian

I have a fullwood 1910 proofed around that time, whats your serial number, they might be close

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paradox_
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: paradox_]
      #351313 - 11/03/21 12:05 PM

Hello John

Thank you for the input.
I come here, as do we all to share and learn on a range of subjects. The one in this discussion is Mannlicher Rifles.

You ask that I just scroll past stuff that bores me. The problem here is that Brian pretty much highjacks the thread with all the same old regurgitated pictures making it difficult to filter the new and relevant information.
For me Mannlicher threads are now just full of Brians "white picture noise". I know of at least two members that no longer follow or contribute for this very reason.
You say " where relevant". Very often the picture in question is not relevant to the thread, as in fact is most of the other material.

Brian himself has just stated , and I quote " These Boards would get boring pretty durned quick if they only contained our own images limited to our own firearms and information that we already know"... and yet that what he does regularly is throw up the same old stuff.

Brian , you have a great opportunity to start a Thread on Grandads 1910. However when asked to put up some actually pictures of the rifle that you tease us with in the Leopard picture ( constantly) you seem relunctant stating that because its un remarkable members would find it boring. None are boring, all are different in some way Im know many of us would love to see it.
I for one have never seen a Gerad B scope... for example.

While considering that why dont you create some threads showing us your own Mannlichers, including Grandads?? That would save you a lot of time trolling the internet for pictures and information that is already out there, as well as showing us something new and different.
If Grandads rifle were mine I couldnt wait to show everyone.
Nothing gets my attention more than a member who has something new with a " look what Ive got " post.
So, what do you say Brian, hope on smart phone and take pics for us.

Best
Eric

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Rothhammer1
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: paradox_]
      #351315 - 11/03/21 12:37 PM

Quote:

Thanks Brian

I have a fullwood 1910 proofed around that time, whats your serial number, they might be close





The Take Down rifles may or may not have their own serial number range, I don't know.

My M1910 'factory' Take Down Model bears the serial number 7162 and a Vienna proof number of 1571.22.

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: paradox_]
      #351316 - 11/03/21 01:15 PM

Quote:



For me Mannlicher threads are now just full of Brians "white picture noise"...

You say " where relevant". Very often the picture in question is not relevant to the thread, as in fact is most of the other material.

...

While considering that why dont you create some threads showing us your own Mannlichers, including Grandads?? That would save you a lot of time trolling the internet for pictures and information that is already out there, as well as showing us something new and different.
If Grandads rifle were mine I couldnt wait to show everyone.
Nothing gets my attention more than a member who has something new with a " look what Ive got " post.
So, what do you say Brian, hope on smart phone and take pics for us.

Best
Eric




You have a rather unique manner of asking for favors.

I don't care for childish cat fights, but here goes;

To this point I have answered you with civility (and a dash of sarcasm), even after your asinine "purported grandfather" remark.

In response to you now, however, I'd like for you to show me a single word that I had posted to this thread (prior to your bitch session) that was not directly relevant to the original post.

Was it the single image of a Sherlock Holmes type 'detecting' that set you on a hissy fit?

Where did I write anything about the MS being "boring"?

Get off of your high horse. I do not have quality images of my MS' details and do not care to take fuzzy snapshots of it. I do not own a 'smart phone' to "hope on [sic]", some of my telephones have dials (I "hope" you have a competent editor for your purported magazine articles). I also do not work for you.

As to what gets your attention - whatever blows wind up your skirt.


Actually, having just had the MS in hand and examining under magnification (with aging eyes), I have noticed a couple of interesting things about it.

Somehow I don't feel inclined to share them with you just now.

Just for you:



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Rothhammer1
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: themauserkid]
      #351317 - 11/03/21 02:47 PM

Quote:

Okay I took it apart for a closer look and pictures, ...there is a tiny circle V on the bottom of the barrel shank. In this context, I wonder if that is used as a provisional proof of sorts before being sold into the trade?




My M1910 MS TD also has the 'circle V' stamp low on barrel shank.

The British proofs are Birmingham.

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paradox_
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #351318 - 11/03/21 02:54 PM



Apologies Brian for my poor Grammar. I of course did mean hop and not "hope". ( Damm auto spell) Im sorry this has upset you so.

Smart Phones: Actually smart phones, even the older models take excellent pictures, all of my postings are with a phone. Also I never suggested you take fuzzy shots. I do now understand better why you don't post original photos as you dont have the equipment.

Irrelevant : Perfect example is above , something you've discovered on the internet??, which has no meaning or relevancy. What is that anyway?

Quote:

"For posting, photographs of my / his cased M1910 Take Down Model would look nearly identical to those of many others as it is rather typical".
Brian By implication you imply we would not find the rifle interesting. ( boring may have been a little over the top, I apologise). However you now say it has some newly discovered interesting features, pray do share with us when you feel inclined.
I would very much like to see the scope and mounting system, which by the way isn't shown in Grandads photo. He must have taken them off that day.

Sherlock Holmes: Is that who it was?, another picture not relevant. ( Thats at least two in this thread alone)
Editing: Nope , do my own with all original material.

Work for me: ?? Nor Sir , thats unlikely.

PS. Are we able to compare serial numbers ( at least) for our Model 1910?

Best
Eric

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: paradox_]
      #351319 - 11/03/21 04:02 PM

Quote:



Apologies Brian for my poor Grammar. I of course did mean hop and not "hope". ( Damm auto spell) Im sorry this has upset you so.

Smart Phones: Actually smart phones, even the older models take excellent pictures, all of my postings are with a phone. Also I never suggested you take fuzzy shots. I do now understand better why you don't post original photos as you dont have the equipment.

Irrelevant : Perfect example is above , something you've discovered on the internet??, which has no meaning or relevancy. What is that anyway?

Quote:

"For posting, photographs of my / his cased M1910 Take Down Model would look nearly identical to those of many others as it is rather typical".
Brian By implication you imply we would not find the rifle interesting. ( boring may have been a little over the top, I apologise). However you now say it has some newly discovered interesting features, pray do share with us when you feel inclined.
I would very much like to see the scope and mounting system, which by the way isn't shown in Grandads photo. He must have taken them off that day.

Sherlock Holmes: Is that who it was?, another picture not relevant. ( Thats at least two in this thread alone)
Editing: Nope , do my own with all original material.

Work for me: ?? Nor Sir , thats unlikely.

PS. Are we able to compare serial numbers ( at least) for our Model 1910?

Best
Eric




Have you lost your mind or are you just drunk?

Your above post is rambling gibberish peppered with senseless whining.

Could you not decipher the serial number from this cleverly coded post?:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:

Thanks Brian

I have a fullwood 1910 proofed around that time, whats your serial number, they might be close




The Take Down rifles may or may not have their own serial number range, I don't know.

My M1910 'factory' Take Down Model bears the serial number 7162 and a Vienna proof number of 1571.22.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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paradox_
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #351320 - 11/03/21 04:16 PM

Brian, think you had better take a pill and have a lie down old mate.
My apologies, no I didnt see the number, but thank you.
I think we will leave it there before you burst something.

All the best

--------------------
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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: paradox_]
      #351321 - 11/03/21 04:19 PM

Quote:

Brian, think you had better take a pill and have a lie down old mate.
My apologies, no I didnt see the number, but thank you.
I think we will leave it there before you burst something.

All the best




Back at ya, you sanctimonious twit.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #351322 - 11/03/21 10:19 PM

There were two kinds of Mannlicher – Schoenauer takedowns once available in the UK. First, the detachable stock type as offered as a factory option by the Steyr factory and described by Rothhammer and others.
On the other hand several British gunmakers converted M-Sch actions to a detachable barrel mode. Here is mine (again), a 1903 in .256 Gibbs aka 6.5x54. Built by George Gibbs, Bristol, on a 1905 dated military production action. Gibbs screwed the barrel hand tight into the receiver and locked it in place with an elongated front guard screw. For detaching the barrel you need a turnscrew (= a British screwdriver). Loosen the front guard screw several turns. Now barrel and foreend may be screwed off the action.

Other gunmakers like Fraser used an additional thumb screw in in the left side of the receiver ring to lock the barrel in place.
Westley – Richards advertised another, more elaborate design of a barrel take down M-Sch in their 1912 catalog. W-R altered the receiver ring extensively and brazed on a reinforced extension. Their barrel had two locking lugs just like the bolt, locking it into the receiver. After opening a latch on the foreend, the barrel could be pulled out of the action after giving it a quarter turn. Btw, this W-R patent takedown system is a twin, if not a plain copy, of the 1880 German patent held by Schmidt & Habermann, Suhl.



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LRF
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: kuduae]
      #351325 - 12/03/21 12:28 AM

Kuduae, Thank you for sharing the photo of your fine looking rifle. Many of you may know that I am in the process of building a 1896 Steyr as a takedown, and have been documenting the project over on the DoubleGun forum. My intention is to have my rifle look very much like the one Kuduae has shared.
I would very much like to see more detailed pictures of your rifle. Especially, taken down with closeups of the attachment system.

On a slightly different note I see the differences between your rifle and the rifle pictured in the advertisement you also shared. The big one being your rifle requires the barrel to be full unscrewed from the action (I believe) while the one in the ad is the quarter turn lock system. Yours as you say is a model 1903, do you know what year your rifle was built? And do you have an aprox date for the advertisement you have shown?

If possible please share more pictures of your great rifle. Thanks!

Edited by LRF (12/03/21 12:31 AM)


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kuduae
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: LRF]
      #351334 - 12/03/21 03:53 AM

LRF,
reread my post. My Gibbs M-Sch m1903 is dated open on the receiver wall “Steyr 1905”. I guess Gibbs would have scrubbed off a receiver date if he had built a “new gun” on a receiver already several years old. As I wrote, that Westley – Richards ad is from their 1912 catalog. The drawing is from Schmidt & Habermann’s 1880 patent.
As I have that Zielvier scope mounted on the receiver, I have blocked the hand take down feature on my rifle in the Interest of accuracy. So I will not take it apart, if not absolutely necessary. Instead, here is a photo of a takedown Gibbs Mannlicher I once stole from this NE forum. Here you can see the full threaded barrel and the backed out front guard screw. His screw goes into a shallow hole or dimple in the barrel threads when the rifle is assembled. IMHO the weakest spot of Gibbs’ system as the screw cannot clamp the action to the stock wood and the barrel in the receiver ring at the same time. With a bit of wear or wood shrinking or swelling one of it’s functions will become loose, as it did on mine.


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3DogMike
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #351336 - 12/03/21 04:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Brian, think you had better take a pill and have a lie down old mate.
My apologies, no I didnt see the number, but thank you.
I think we will leave it there before you burst something.

All the best




Back at ya, you sanctimonious twit.




He shoots....he SCORES!!!!!



--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: kuduae]
      #351338 - 12/03/21 04:53 AM

Quote:

There were two kinds of Mannlicher – Schoenauer takedowns once available in the UK. First, the detachable stock type as offered as a factory option by the Steyr factory and described by Rothhammer and others...





Great information.

I've a few questions for you, Axel:

Do you know (about) when the earliest Steyr built take down models were produced?

Did Steyr ever produce the Take Down in M1924 or later models?

What are the earliest / latest proof dates known to you of Steyr built take downs?


Also - have you ever seen a stamping (on a 1920s MS) of what appear to be two small daggers crossed beneath a circle?



I like the sling on your M1903 Gibbs (and, of course, the Gibbs itself).


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LRF
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: kuduae]
      #351344 - 12/03/21 07:41 AM

Quote:

LRF,
.... Here you can see the full threaded barrel and the backed out front guard screw. His screw goes into a shallow hole or dimple in the barrel threads when the rifle is assembled. IMHO the weakest spot of Gibbs’ system as the screw cannot clamp the action to the stock wood and the barrel in the receiver ring at the same time. With a bit of wear or wood shrinking or swelling one of it’s functions will become loose, as it did on mine....





First thanks for getting back to me. I agree with your comments above concerning the front receiver screw arrangement. I am considering 2 possible solutions for this. 1. Use a screw within a screw for the front guard. The outer screw would hold the receiver while the inner screw which is threaded thru the middle of the outer screw would be used to pin the barrel. or 2. leave the guard screws as they are and place a barrel screw thru the left side of the receive as I have seen on other rifles.


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kuduae
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: LRF]
      #351347 - 12/03/21 09:17 AM

LRE, I would opt for a sideways screw like the one on this Mannlicher by Fraser, see
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=321696&an=0&page=3#Post321696


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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #351357 - 12/03/21 03:42 PM




Do you know (about) when the earliest Steyr built take down models were produced?

Did Steyr ever produce the Take Down in M1924 or later models?

What are the earliest / latest proof dates known to you of Steyr built take downs?


Brian

Yes they did make a 1924 take down, please see upcoming thread for "British Sequoia Mannlicher" ( taking photos now)
Yes they did make a 1925 takedown, please see link to my previous post below. Im personally not aware of any examples later than 1925.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=316312&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

The earliest takedown example Im aware of ( not dated) is this one of my Model 1900 . This example is most likely a lead into the 1903.Please link to my previous post below.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=318008&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

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Rothhammer1
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: paradox_]
      #351374 - 13/03/21 03:47 AM

Quote:





Yes they did make a 1924 take down, please see upcoming thread for "British Sequoia Mannlicher" ...
Yes they did make a 1925 takedown, please see link to my previous post below. Im personally not aware of any examples later than 1925...


The earliest takedown example Im aware of ( not dated) is this one of my Model 1900 . This example is most likely a lead into the 1903.Please link to my previous post below.







Thank you. Great info.

The 1938 proof on your '25 makes it just one side or the other of the Anchluss.
Is it German proofed as well as Austrian?

The 'Made in Austria' stamp on your 'M1925' barrel is interesting.
I have seen images of a few like it.

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paradox_
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #351378 - 13/03/21 10:50 AM

The 1925 appears to have just escaped the German marks, instead proudly marked " Made in Austria"

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themauserkid
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: paradox_]
      #351389 - 15/03/21 07:39 AM

Interestingly the Gibbs example in one of those threads has the same trigger guard numbering I saw on my friend’s action, I’ll have to go back and look at it.

I still need to find a photo host when I have a moment as I took some pictures.


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Rothhammer1
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: themauserkid]
      #351430 - 16/03/21 06:44 AM

Quote:

Interestingly the Gibbs example in one of those threads has the same trigger guard numbering I saw on my friend’s action, I’ll have to go back and look at it.

I still need to find a photo host when I have a moment as I took some pictures.




This works and costs nothing:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=321070&an=0&page=0#Post321070

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themauserkid
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Re: British Mannlichers [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #351437 - 16/03/21 02:07 PM

Hopefully this works, here are some pictures:


I did just as the instructions stated but they didn’t upload. I’m trying from a phone, not a computer so I’m not sure.





Edited by themauserkid (17/03/21 05:07 AM)


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