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buckstix
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Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snider 360 #5 cal
#348491 - 26/12/20 04:48 PM

Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snider in 360 #5 caliber.

This is another one of my cute little Rooks that I plan to plink with. Its a scaled-down Snider Action.

I've just started to develop loads for it and will be ready to shoot it this week. Although the 360 #5 caliber is uncommon, I've discovered the cartridges can be made from 38 Long Colt brass. In fact, it will shoot 38 Long Colt ammo just fine. This one also shoots 38 S&W pistol ammo, although that case is a little bigger in diameter.

The wood on this rifle has some very nice grain, but its really dark and the grain doesn't show up very well in my pics. I'll be adding better pictures as I get them.

I could not find any maker's name on the rifle, unless its Snider itself. There is a small oval that reads; "Snider's Patent" and a couple of arrows through an "S". Not sure what they mean, unless again, that's for Snider. The bottom of the hook-breach barrel has British proofs, and a "105" which I assume is the British gauge for 360 caliber.

And as usual, your comments are most welcome.

--------------------
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Marrakai
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: buckstix]
#348493 - 26/12/20 07:35 PM

Snider, rather than Snyder, to be correct.
Apologies for nit-picking, one of my pet hates.

They are really nice things, one of my friends here in Darwin has 2 of them!

I have long been envious of him, now of you too, buckstix!

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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buckstix
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: Marrakai]
#348495 - 26/12/20 10:03 PM

Quote:

Snider, rather than Snyder, to be correct.
Apologies for nit-picking, one of my pet hates.

They are really nice things, one of my friends here in Darwin has 2 of them!

I have long been envious of him, now of you too, buckstix!

Hello Marrakai,
Thanks for the reply.

I have 8 Rook rifles - 360 No.5 - 300 LS - 300 Sherwood - 300 Rook - 297-250 Rook - 297 L2 - and (2) 297-230

I love shooting them all. I have tons of custom brass for the 297-230 long and short and have been able to supply a lot of shooters with this hard to find brass.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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85lc
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: buckstix]
#348496 - 27/12/20 01:19 AM

That sounds like a wonderful collection of fun shooters.

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RB

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DarylS
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: 85lc]
#348497 - 27/12/20 04:51 AM

NICE rifle, buckstix. Imagine, a hooked breech on a ctg. action. Amazing!
That stock is REALLY dark. Makes me wonder if it was refinished at some point and was stained.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: DarylS]
#348499 - 27/12/20 06:48 AM

Really neat little rifle - and yes that hook-breech is a really cool feature.

Fun!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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tinker
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: tinker]
#348500 - 27/12/20 06:58 AM

I did a quick search for that arrow through S mark.

See this

https://www.proxibid.com/Pistols/Revolve...mation/49411433

And this

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/77/1515/two-us-military-double-action-revolvers

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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buckstix
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: tinker]
#348501 - 27/12/20 07:02 AM

Quote:

That sounds like a wonderful collection of fun shooters.

Hello 85 lc,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes ....!

Quote:

NICE rifle, buckstix. Imagine, a hooked breech on a ctg. action. Amazing!
That stock is REALLY dark. Makes me wonder if it was refinished at some point and was stained.

Hello Daryl_S,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, the hook breech is fascinating. No, the stock has not been refinished. It is very dark from age. And, my camera flash doesn't do well with high contrast black/white. I'll try to take some pictures in the sunlight.

Quote:

Really neat little rifle - and yes that hook-breech is a really cool feature.

Fun!

Hello tinker,
Thanks for the reply. This should be fun to shoot, and I'll be shooting it in about an hour.

Fortunately the 360 No.5 Rook cartridge is nearly identical to the 38 Long Colt cartridge. That's what I used for reloading. About 3 dozen years ago I purchased a 38 cal Hollow Base Heel Bullet swage die from Corbin. With this die I can insert a standard .357 dia lead bullet, pull the handle, and out comes the Hollow Base Heel bullet. In this case I wanted a 115 grain bullet, so I started with a Speer 158 grain round nose lead bullet. These are fully coated with a wax type lubricant. I snipped-off about 25 grains and inserted the shortened bullet into the swage die. When you pull the handle, it squeezes the bullet into shape, and bleeds off excess lead through 3 tiny bleed holes in the die.

Out comes a perfect heel bullet with a base dia. of .357 and a forward dia. of .375". Bullets are loaded over 2.5g of Trail Boss powder.

Pictures below show the process ..... now off to the range.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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tinker
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: buckstix]
#348502 - 27/12/20 07:04 AM

See the links that I just posted.

38 Long Colt...

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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93x64mm
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: buckstix]
#348504 - 27/12/20 08:31 AM

Fun!

Hello tinker,
Thanks for the reply. This should be fun to shoot, and I'll be shooting it in about an hour.

Fortunately the 360 No.5 Rook cartridge is nearly identical to the 38 Long Colt cartridge. That's what I used for reloading. About 3 dozen years ago I purchased a 38 cal Hollow Base Heel Bullet swage die from Corbin. With this die I can insert a standard .357 dia lead bullet, pull the handle, and out comes the Hollow Base Heel bullet. In this case I wanted a 115 grain bullet, so I started with a Speer 158 grain round nose lead bullet. These are fully coated with a wax type lubricant. I snipped-off about 25 grains and inserted the shortened bullet into the swage die. When you pull the handle, it squeezes the bullet into shape, and bleeds off excess lead through 3 tiny bleed holes in the die.

Out comes a perfect heel bullet with a base dia. of .357 and a forward dia. of .375". Bullets are loaded over 2.5g of Trail Boss powder.

Pictures below show the process ..... now off to the range.

I use 2.5gn Trailboss with my .32-20 under a 115gn cast HRBC bullet, these pop out at just over the 800fps mark & aren't too bad accuracy wise in my 1892 Winnie.
I'd say Buckstix you'll get about the same, extremely easy load on the rifle being a straight sided case.
That Corbin press must be something to be able to swage down lead - it must operate at least 5 ton of pressure as that's what our crimpers work at for joining conductors!
Lovely piece again there mate, a mini Snyder...WOW that must be a fair old rarity in itself, let alone still going!
You certainly can sniff out these gems mate, another wonderful piece kept for posterity.
Well done indeed!

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85lc
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: 93x64mm]
#348509 - 27/12/20 09:38 AM

Some finishes get very dark as they age.

--------------------
RB

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buckstix
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: 93x64mm]
#348512 - 27/12/20 10:24 AM

Quote:

See the links that I just posted.

38 Long Colt...

Hello tinker,
Thanks for the reply.

We still don't know the meaning of the exact "S" with the arrow through it .... I'm sure this rifle was not for the Navy.

Quote:

I use 2.5gn Trailboss with my .32-20 under a 115gn cast HRBC bullet, these pop out at just over the 800fps mark & aren't too bad accuracy wise in my 1892 Winnie.
I'd say Buckstix you'll get about the same, extremely easy load on the rifle being a straight sided case.
That Corbin press must be something to be able to swage down lead - it must operate at least 5 ton of pressure as that's what our crimpers work at for joining conductors!
Lovely piece again there mate, a mini Snyder...WOW that must be a fair old rarity in itself, let alone still going!
You certainly can sniff out these gems mate, another wonderful piece kept for posterity.
Well done indeed!

Hello 93x64mm,
Thanks for the reply.

If memory serves me, the Corbin presses operate at about 40,000 pounds of pressure - 20 tons. Ive been bullet swaging since 1975, when both Dave Corbin and myself were youngsters.

Range results were OK, but I need to step-up the velocity. I'm very conservative with unknown calibers and I started with 38 S&W data, and I'll work into 38 Long Colt data next.

I've also shown a couple better pictures of the beautiful figure in the stock. My phone doesn't take very clear pictures, but it doesn't make the stock look black like my camera does.

BETTER PICTURES OF THE STOCK TO SHOW THE BEAUTIFUL FIGURE

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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DarylS
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: buckstix]
#348515 - 27/12/20 11:43 AM

That's really nice, buckstix - REALLY nice "bit of kit".

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: DarylS]
#348517 - 27/12/20 11:51 AM

Doesn't look like a Navy piece to me either, but those two were the only firearms that came up in the search for arrow through S proofs

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Marrakai
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: tinker]
#348519 - 27/12/20 01:38 PM

I have always understood the arrow with 4 veins of fletching, through an S, to be the Snider Patents trademark.
Not a proof mark.

I have half a dozen .577 Sniders and most of them have this mark. Usually the Arrow/S is surrounded by the Snider Patent wording, rather than adjacent.
Perhaps the reduced dimensions of the rook configuration caused the wording to be crowded, and did not allow space for the Arrow mark within.

NFI why the Arrow/S would appear on the butt of a Smith & Wesson Navy revolver though!

Will attempt to research the patents used in the S&W Hand-ejector, maybe one of them was a Snider patent? Seems unlikely though...

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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lancaster
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: buckstix]
#348523 - 27/12/20 05:03 PM

" Ive been bullet swaging since 1975, when both Dave Corbin and myself were youngsters.

-

I'm very conservative with unknown calibers and I started with 38 S&W data, and I'll work into 38 Long Colt data next."

being conservative with unknown caliber is one of the reasons you become older now

shooting very well to excellent!

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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93x64mm
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: lancaster]
#348541 - 28/12/20 08:30 AM

Much better photos Buckstix, those last ones certainly did it justice!
Nothing to be worried about that load mate - it prints just fine for an old girl with open sights!

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buckstix
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: 93x64mm]
#348574 - 29/12/20 01:55 AM

Quote:

That's really nice, buckstix - REALLY nice "bit of kit".

Hello Daryl_S,
Thanks for the reply.

Quote:

Doesn't look like a Navy piece to me either, but those two were the only firearms that came up in the search for arrow through S proofs

Hello tinker,
Thanks for the reply.

I searched also for the "Arrow-through-S" and found what you did .... perhaps someone on the British Guns Forum can explain.

Quote:

I have always understood the arrow with 4 veins of fletching, through an S, to be the Snider Patents trademark.
Not a proof mark.

I have half a dozen .577 Sniders and most of them have this mark. Usually the Arrow/S is surrounded by the Snider Patent wording, rather than adjacent.
Perhaps the reduced dimensions of the rook configuration caused the wording to be crowded, and did not allow space for the Arrow mark within.

NFI why the Arrow/S would appear on the butt of a Smith & Wesson Navy revolver though!

Will attempt to research the patents used in the S&W Hand-ejector, maybe one of them was a Snider patent? Seems unlikely though...

Hello Marrakai,
Thanks for the reply.

If you find any additional information, please share it here. Thanks

Quote:

being conservative with unknown caliber is one of the reasons you become older now

shooting very well to excellent!

Hello lancaster,
Thanks for the reply.

I never thought of that way ... but you are correct.

Quote:

Much better photos Buckstix, those last ones certainly did it justice!
Nothing to be worried about that load mate - it prints just fine for an old girl with open sights!

Hello 93x64mm,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I need to get a better camera that doesn't have such high contrast.

I'm off to the ranhge to try some faster loads. Published data I found said 1000 fps was factory for the 300 No. 5 Rook cartridge. I'll be trying some Bullseye loads.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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buckstix
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: buckstix]
#348716 - 01/01/21 05:39 AM

Hello all,

I worked up another load. This time I swaged 150g bullets. They are a bit Longer, and they shoot a lot better ...

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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TH44
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: buckstix]
#348723 - 01/01/21 10:50 AM

Wow Buckstix that is better than I could shoot with my Ruger .22 with bull barrel!!

835 fps with a 150 grain bullet is well "pokey" more than enough for any rook or rabbit!

Thanks for posting I have several r & r rifles but am always interested in the unusual actions and calibres

TH44

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buckstix
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: TH44]
#348735 - 01/01/21 10:45 PM

Quote:

Wow Buckstix that is better than I could shoot with my Ruger .22 with bull barrel!!

835 fps with a 150 grain bullet is well "pokey" more than enough for any rook or rabbit!

Thanks for posting I have several r & r rifles but am always interested in the unusual actions and calibres

TH44

Hello TH44,
Thanks for the reply.

I have six different Rook & Rabbit rifles in various calibers.

This one has really surpassed my expectations in its shooting. I have it sighted 1.65" high at 50 feet, which puts it dead-on at 70 yards. The mid-range is just under 3" high (+2.9) at 35 & 40yards. I doubt I'll be taking any shots over 70 yards, unless its a very big rabbit.

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: buckstix]
#348747 - 02/01/21 05:43 AM

Amazingly accurate buckstix. Any lube as in a wax or grease?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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buckstix
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: DarylS]
#348759 - 02/01/21 09:43 AM

Quote:

Amazingly accurate buckstix. Any lube as in a wax or grease?

Hello Daryl_S,
Thanks for the reply.

No additional lube was used. The bullets came pre-lubed (waxed) and all I did was swage them to heel-bullet shape. I've fired over 25 shots in one outing with no signs of leading.

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: buckstix]
#348766 - 02/01/21 11:36 AM

Nice indeed! Of course we use no lubes in our PCP air rifles with speeds well over 800fps. Every now and then, they do need cleaning, though, from time to time.

Harry Pope used to say there was no need to clean a .22 as the bullets had a wax or grease applied.
He mentioned that now and then, a rifle will "pick up a bit of lead, but keep shooting it and it will shoot the lead out".

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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buckstix
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Re: Another Most Interesting Rook Rifle - Mini-Snyder 360 #5 cal [Re: DarylS]
#348794 - 03/01/21 02:25 PM

Quote:

Nice indeed! Of course we use no lubes in our PCP air rifles with speeds well over 800fps. Every now and then, they do need cleaning, though, from time to time.

Harry Pope used to say there was no need to clean a .22 as the bullets had a wax or grease applied.
He mentioned that now and then, a rifle will "pick up a bit of lead, but keep shooting it and it will shoot the lead out".

Hello Daryl_S,
Thanks for the reply.

I have told many of my fellow small bore competition shooters; "After 10,000 rounds through my Anschutz, I decided to clean the bore, for no other reason than I thought I should. Well, that was once too often!" It took nearly 500 rounds for it to settle back into its 10x ability.

I shoot a lot of lead through my many Schuetzen rifles including my Stevens-Pope 44-1/2 Model 54, and I have found that very little lube is required. Although I have tried a lot of different concoctions, now a days I use Lee Liquid Alox, exclusively.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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