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Scholar
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F. C. Selous' Rifles
#344188 - 09/08/20 11:08 PM

I am working on a PPt / Photo-Essay / Documentary … on F. C. Selous … and may, from time-to-time, have a question or two about him …

Right now, I am compiling a record of his firearms … his preferred and documented firearms …

So far I have his 4-bore and 10-bore … .256 … .425 … and .461 …

Any others of note? …

Also … is there a problem with posting an inquiry such as this in more than one forum here? …

...

Edited by Scholar (09/08/20 11:16 PM)

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Huvius
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Scholar]
#344191 - 10/08/20 01:05 AM

I think he had an Alexander Henry 450 as well.
One thing I’ve found unusual is that for a man who gained quite the notoriety in his time, there are very few photographs of him.
I’ve closely studied the photos of Selous with rifles (maybe four total) and believe I know what rifles they are.
Of course, there is the picture of Selous with the Kori Bustards and his H&H falling block which I think is a 375 2-1/2” which was rebarreled to .256. Maybe replaced with a .256.
Then there is a picture of him with a large bore muzzle loader.
There’s a studio sitting picture in which he has a Jeffery Farquharson laying across his lap.
Another photo shows him with a rifle over his shoulder which looks like a late George Gibbs Farquharson.

There may be one or two others I’m forgetting.

I’m reading Selous’ Travel and Adventure in South East Africa and he mentions a number of his rifles in this book.

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NitroX
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Scholar]
#344193 - 10/08/20 01:44 AM

Quote:

Also … is there a problem with posting an inquiry such as this in more than one forum here? …

...

No don't create two threads with the same question. Waste of time. You will find out stuff or not with a single thread. The African hunting forum might be a forum other than general to locate this thread on Selous' rifles.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: NitroX]
#344194 - 10/08/20 02:06 AM

F. C. Selous also had a .600 Nitro (I don't remember the make) that doubled on him now and then. I guess you could say it wasn't one of his favourites, but was the only one that bowled over an elephant for him, dropping it to the off side of the entering bullets, rather than the elephant dropping to the impact side, which was normal.
I do not remember the Gun Digest that story was in, but do remember the story.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Marrakai
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: DarylS]
#344219 - 10/08/20 12:48 PM

I seem to remember Ross Seyfried taking one of Selous' Gibbs Farquharsons to Africa and knocking over an ostritch or two with it. Perhaps other game as well. Reported in the Bubblegum Journal many years ago...

Will look it up if no-one else here can locate it in the meantime.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Ripp
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Marrakai]
#344234 - 10/08/20 11:33 PM

THIS will be an interesting thread to follow...

Thx for posting...

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Huvius
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Ripp]
#344251 - 11/08/20 12:14 PM

On page 36 of Selous' Travel and Adventure in South-East Africa (I highly recommend this book), he describes shooting a Male lion square in the frontal skull with an Alexander Henry .450.
He shipped the skull to Alex Henry as well.

https://books.google.com/books/content?i...1428&edge=0

He owned the A. Henry and a Gibbs at the same time and used the Henry when ammunition for the Gibbs was out.

https://books.google.com/books/content?i...1345&edge=0

Selous often speaks of his Metford rifled Gibbs Farquharson as a "450" which most experts claim is just a generic term for any rifle in the 450 bore range.
I, however, think there may be more to story than that as his rifle was actually stamped "450 EX" on the barrel.
I believe it actually could have been a 450, perhaps made to shoot the 500/450 No.2 Musket cartridge because on page 169 of the same book, Selous writes of preparing to follow up an elephant with his Gibbs using "military" cartridges.
Gibbs did make some target Farquharsons to the "military breech loader" rules so perhaps it is the use of this cartridge which Selous is referring to.
The rifle does still exist - I sure would like to see a chamber cast or bore measurements on that one!!
Short of getting my hands on that rifle, which I dare say is not bloody likely, I do have something of a remedy in the hands of Steve Bertram which I hope to share soon.

Here are some of his thoughts on the 450s:

https://books.google.com/books/content?i...1036&edge=0

https://books.google.com/books/content?i...1274&edge=0

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Scholar
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Huvius]
#344255 - 11/08/20 02:42 PM

Many thanks, Huvius .... good stuff ... too bad there doesn't seem to be a single photo available of his .450 Metford "by Gibbs of Bristol" (as he always notes) ... but if you can acquire one, that would be of great help ...

As for other photographs of Selous, I agree with you that they are, in fact, relatively few and far between ... though I have already come up with more than two dozen photographs of Selous ... as well as a number of portrait paintings ... all of which I intend to use in my presentation ...

I will, of course, read (once again) his four most relevant books prior to finalizing this piece:

A Hunter's Wanderings … / Travel And Adventure … / Sunshine & Storm … / and African Nature Notes … (probably just scan the others) ...

I am in the midst of reading three of them (hard copies) right now ... one in my throne room ... one in my truck for cafe' reading ... and one in my beach bag ...

As far as on-line reading goes ... I much prefer "Archive" ... as one can review both high-quality photographic images of each page ... as well as the raw text ... (links below) ...

All the best ...

Archive of Travel and Adventure (photo): https://archive.org/details/traveladventurei00selouoft/page/n7/mode/2up

Ditto (text): https://archive.org/stream/traveladventurei00selouoft/traveladventurei00selouoft_djvu.txt

... <end-of-message> ...

Edited by Scholar (11/08/20 11:53 PM)

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Marrakai
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Scholar]
#344256 - 11/08/20 02:59 PM

Looked up the Seyfried article, it appears my recollection was not entirely accurate. Not wrong though: once I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

"The Great Chobe Chicken Hunt" was actually published in "Blackpowder Hunting" magazine in the fall of 2004. The Selous connection comes from the fact that Seyfried spent the first half of the article quoting verbatim, in full!, Selous' published ostrich hunt with a Gibbs Farquharson, and also the example taken to Africa to replicate that hunt 120 years later was a .461 Gibbs Metford Farquharson with, wait for it, Selous sideplates!

So not actually one of Selous' rifles unfortunately. Worth a read though if you are a gun-mag hoarder.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Huvius
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Scholar]
#344257 - 11/08/20 03:16 PM

Quote:

Many thanks, Huvius .... good stuff ... too bad there doesn't seem to be a single photo available of his .450 Metford "by Gibbs of Bristol" (as he always notes) ... but if you can acquire one, that would be of great help ...

There is a photograph of this rifle in volume 2 of the great series on British single shots by Wal Winfer.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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NitroX
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Huvius]
#344262 - 11/08/20 07:59 PM

I am pretty sure we have photos of some of Selous' rifles on NE. As long as they haven't become inactive.

One I seem to remember was a single barrel bore rifle with the hand grip reinforced with tin sheeting riveted. There is some chance it was another early elephant hunters but I am think Selous. Doing a search now.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Scholar
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: NitroX]
#344273 - 12/08/20 01:20 AM

In the meantime ...

... a fairly good account of some of Selous' rifles was made at, of all places, Bonham's auction house ...

I must've looked at that page half-a-dozen times, but always in regards to his .256, then up for auction, never taking the time to read the entire description ...

... "Selous used a variety of guns throughout his hunting career. He landed in Africa with a .577 (Snider) double rifle by E.M. Reilly, but this was stolen whilst on his way to Matabeleland in 1871, and was replaced by a pair of Hollis 4-bore muzzle-loaders. These were joined by a third, a converted duck-gun, which he bought from the South African hunter Jan Viljoen and which was to remain with him for the rest of his life. He also appears to have obtained another .577 Snider rifle as a replacement for his stolen Reilly, although he seem to have preferred the 4-bores. On his first trip back to England in 1876 he bought three new rifles, all single-barrelled breech-loading rifles of large bore. These were all superseded four years later by his .461 Gibbs-Farquharson rifle, which was to be his standard rifle until 1895 when he tried his first "small-bore" rifle, a .303 Lee-Metford loaned to him by Henry Holland after his Gibbs went missing. Between 1896 and 1915 he tried a variety of calibres, including .256, eventually conceding to his biographer, J.G. Millais, that he would have been better off sticking with two calibres; one such as the .256 Mannlicher for small game, and a .450 Rigby or equivalent for heavy or dangerous game." ...

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17947/lot/298/

...

Edited by Scholar (13/08/20 09:42 AM)

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NitroX
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Scholar]
#344274 - 12/08/20 02:48 AM

Quote:

In the meantime ...

Of course members can do a search themselves as well.

Quote:

... a fairly good account of some of Selous' rifles was made at, of all places, Bonham's auction house ...

I must've looked at that page half-a-dozen times, but always in regards to his .256, then up for auction, never taking the time to read the entire description ...

Selous used a variety of guns throughout his hunting career. He landed in Africa with a .577 (Snider) double rifle by E.M. Reilly, but this was stolen whilst on his way to Matabeleland in 1871, and was replaced by a pair of Hollis 4-bore muzzle-loaders. These were joined by a third, a converted duck-gun, which he bought from the South African hunter Jan Viljoen and which was to remain with him for the rest of his life. He also appears to have obtained another .577 Snider rifle as a replacement for his stolen Reilly, although he seem to have preferred the 4-bores. On his first trip back to England in 1876 he bought three new rifles, all single-barrelled breech-loading rifles of large bore. These were all superseded four years later by his .461 Gibbs-Farquharson rifle, which was to be his standard rifle until 1895 when he tried his first "small-bore" rifle, a .303 Lee-Metford loaned to him by Henry Holland after his Gibbs went missing. Between 1896 and 1915 he tried a variety of calibres, including .256, eventually conceding to his biographer, J.G. Millais, that he would have been better off sticking with two calibres; one such as the .256 Mannlicher for small game, and a .450 Rigby or equivalent for heavy or dangerous game.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17947/lot/298/

...

Yes like this post:

FC Selous .256 Holland-Woodward Holland & Holland falling block rifle

The famous Frederick Courtney Selous .256 Holland-Woodward patent falling block rifle made by Holland & Holland has sold for GBP32,400 plus buyers premium at Bonhams.

The .256 cartridge is a .264 bore, and probably either a 6.5x54M-S or 6.5x53R.

This rifle completed in 1899, and one of three Holland-Woodward actions made for Selous by Holland & Holland. The other rifles being chambered in .303 and a .375.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=232978&an=&page=0&vc=1

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: NitroX]
#344276 - 12/08/20 03:23 AM

Mannlicher 6.5

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=67765&page=0&fpart=2&vc=1

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Scholar
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: NitroX]
#344278 - 12/08/20 03:49 AM

Quote:

Mannlicher 6.5

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=67765&page=0&fpart=2&vc=1

So I can assume that that is MAMBO_NYALA holding Selous' Mannlicher at Save'? ...

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Scholar
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Scholar]
#344280 - 12/08/20 06:25 AM

Looks almost like a composite stock, though ... (???) ...

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Rockdoc
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Scholar]
#344281 - 12/08/20 08:36 AM

I bid on the H&H 256 Single that Holt’s sold in 2011 IIRC. I was in the bush of Tanzania and couldn’t do it live. Bill Jones bought it and it was featured in the Craig Boddington African Rifles dvd with some other rifles of nice provenance such as Fletcher Jamieson’s 500Jeffery. He also beat me on Elmer Keith’s 470 WR, again I was in the bush and the rifle went for far more than Holt’s estimate.

I may have some information on it from Holt’s on my laptop.

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NitroX
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Re: F. C. Selous' Rifles [Re: Scholar]
#344285 - 12/08/20 01:27 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Mannlicher 6.5

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=67765&page=0&fpart=2&vc=1

So I can assume that that is MAMBO_NYALA holding Selous' Mannlicher at Save'? ...

Follow the link.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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