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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Purdey 450/400 2 7/8 BPE. express
      #343828 - 30/07/20 06:04 AM

Hey folks.

I have recieved a fair offer on this Purdey doublerifle.
I have been in the marked for a smallbore/lowpowered english doublerifle for awhile. Power wise its on-par with the .44Magnum.
Purdey double rifle in general are rare and at the same time I wanted a new double with another name and another caliber than what I already have.

The bullet dia of this one is .405" where the 450/400 3.25" is .410"(formost part)

Anyone has reloading experience with this cartridge?..

Kindest regards..







Info from Purdeys:

The 400 black powder Purdey express double barrel hammer rifle no.13349. was completed in August 1890 for Mr H. T.

Lawford.

28" barrels, chambered for the 450-400 black powder express cartridge, loaded with 3 1/2 drams of black powder.

"C" quality But with extra quality locks & wood. Purdey&39;s made five qualities of gun at this time best, B, C, D & E quality.

Lever over guard opening.

Back action locks rebounding & bolted.

Eyes for sling.

Weight of gun 7lb 14oz.

I hope this information is interesting.

Yours sincerely

David Maynard

Edited by rigbymauser (30/07/20 07:14 AM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: rigbymauser]
      #343829 - 30/07/20 06:32 AM

That is nice!
What's the bullet weight?
Should be a bit more powerful than the 40/82 Winchester & on par with the .40/90 Sharps, straight and bottle neck.
Is the rate of twist suitable for the 370gr. bullet?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: DarylS]
      #343830 - 30/07/20 06:58 AM

Hi Daryl.

Its a .450-.400 Purdey 2 7/8 BPE.

It used a 255grainbullet to 90grain black powder. That makes the bullet fairly fast and as intended for smallgame up to deersized(60 ibs) the 255grain 400cal bullet will do. Sort of a magnum .38WCF







Edited by rigbymauser (30/07/20 07:21 AM)

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TH44
.375 member


Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: rigbymauser]
      #343832 - 30/07/20 08:43 AM

Jens - Lovely rifle from top maker

Less usual to see rebounding locks bolted, I take it has a half cock position?

I take it you will start with a slightly reduced BP 80? grains ish

Good luck shooting and look forward to range reports

Tony

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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2443
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: TH44]
      #343834 - 30/07/20 09:13 AM

Woodleigh make a 230 grain bullet in 0.405" designed foe the 400 Purdey.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #343837 - 30/07/20 10:02 AM

If you can get 5744 powder where you are at (accurate 5744) a good load would be 36grs of powder with a magnum primer. Important. Use no fillers. This load would be the nitro equivalent for your cartridge.

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: Wayne59]
      #343863 - 30/07/20 10:30 PM

Rigbymauser - you certainly have a wonderful old piece there mate!
Looking forward to a range report both BP & NFB if you're up to it.
Congratulations once again on your new baby!

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: 93x64mm]
      #343871 - 31/07/20 12:32 AM

I haven`t bought it yet, but have here today to acknowledged to the seller I wish to buy it.

It seems to be a little dandy rifle. I can make the brass from cut-downed .450 nitros. I am as I write on hunt for reloading dies and a suitible bulletmold too.



Edited by rigbymauser (31/07/20 12:32 AM)

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: rigbymauser]
      #343873 - 31/07/20 02:01 AM

Now that is a nice find in an unusual cartridge. First one I have heard of in a .450/.400 2 7/8”

Had to look it up in Fleming’s book.....
Does not look like it even made the transition to NfB
- Mike




--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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Postman
.375 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: 3DogMike]
      #343897 - 31/07/20 09:37 PM

I have an Alexander Henry in the more “common” 450-400 2 3/8”. It is a very mild shooting cartridge. I was able to find dies from Hornady, and for brass, I sacrificed some of my beloved .450NE brass, cut them down with a pipe cutter, sized them in the dies and trimmed to length. For bullets, I’m using cast .411” lead using a mold intended for a .41 magnum pistol bullet. I do use a NFB load of smokeless and backer rod foam filler. Graeme Wright’s book, “Shooting the British Double Rifle” has a tiny entry in the appendix from which I based my powder selection and charge weight on. My rifle has Damascus barrels and have thus far not had any issues with unintended Ka-booms......

Edited by Postman (31/07/20 09:52 PM)

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: Postman]
      #343901 - 31/07/20 10:43 PM

I have email with CH4 die factory. They do not have the .450/400 2 7/8 dies in stock or on the program.
2 years waiting and approx $500 for the die set. I have to supply a case or drawing in order for them to make it.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: rigbymauser]
      #343907 - 31/07/20 11:41 PM

Quote:

I have email with CH4 die factory. They do not have the .450/400 2 7/8 dies in stock or on the program.
2 years waiting and approx $500 for the die set. I have to supply a case or drawing in order for them to make it.


I wonder if the .450/.400 3 1/4 is dimensionally alike except for the longer neck? That way the basic cases could be sized at least, and fireformed cases obtained.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: 3DogMike]
      #343909 - 01/08/20 12:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have email with CH4 die factory. They do not have the .450/400 2 7/8 dies in stock or on the program.
2 years waiting and approx $500 for the die set. I have to supply a case or drawing in order for them to make it.


I wonder if the .450/.400 3 1/4 is dimensionally alike except for the longer neck? That way the basic cases could be sized at least, and fireformed cases obtained.
- Mike



I was thinking the same thing and using 10mm auto as neck sizing die afterwards.

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OahuKaneohe
.275 member


Reged: 03/12/08
Posts: 98
Loc: Hawaii, Oahu, Kaneohe
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: rigbymauser]
      #344151 - 09/08/20 04:04 AM

Lee Precision has made custom dies for my 1886 Winchester in 50-110. I sent in 3 fired cases and they made dies in a about 4 weeks turn around time. Instruction to do so are on their web site.

I don't know their policy on sending outside of the USA.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: OahuKaneohe]
      #344152 - 09/08/20 05:13 AM

I attempted to have a set of .375/06IMP dies made by CH4D. I sent them 3 fired cases. The dies they sent to me, were for the
.375/06 Ackley IMP which has a .006" smaller shoulder than my chamber, not made from the cases I sent them.
This "change" not only overworks the cases and reduces the case capacity by about 4 or 5gr.
I returned the dies with another 3 fired cases, asking them to modify the dies to fit the cases I had provided.

They returned the dies untouched with a snide note asking if the gunsmith used a boring bar for cutting the chamber.
As well, both times, they kept the cases I sent.

Not very good service imho. I will never send them any 'work'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: DarylS]
      #344160 - 09/08/20 08:24 AM

I was thinking to cut the brass down to 73mm and then ram it into a .450/400 3,25” die. Isn’t that enough cut the die shorter to sqeeze the neck even further down untill the case enter the chambers freely. Fill the case up with bp and shoot a .41” round ball to just fireform. From here I can get a toolmaker overhere to make some simpel dies and a fixer. It doesn’t have to be science....or ofcouse to commit the ultimate sin...ream the chambers up 450/400 3,25”....Problem solved and from here the world lay open

Edited by rigbymauser (09/08/20 08:33 AM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: rigbymauser]
      #344201 - 10/08/20 02:57 AM


Of course, it could be the body length of your .450/400 is shorter, in which case shortening the die's body should work, even though it might reduce the base area a bit much, it would allow chambering, IF that is the reason they won't chamber.
Shooting 2 balls for fire forming would produce a slightly better result.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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pamtnman
.275 member


Reged: 26/10/16
Posts: 77
Loc: PA USA
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: rigbymauser]
      #345235 - 21/09/20 02:26 PM

Quote:

I was thinking to cut the brass down to 73mm and then ram it into a .450/400 3,25” die. Isn’t that enough cut the die shorter to sqeeze the neck even further down untill the case enter the chambers freely. Fill the case up with bp and shoot a .41” round ball to just fireform. From here I can get a toolmaker overhere to make some simpel dies and a fixer. It doesn’t have to be science....or ofcouse to commit the ultimate sin...ream the chambers up 450/400 3,25”....Problem solved and from here the world lay open


Yeah...I don’t know about doing this, Jens. I recently bought a 450/400 3.25” BPE. Turned out to have been a subject of several discussions here back in 2010 and 2011. It’s a Lancaster double rifle. You and I each recently bought some dies off of a guy at AfricaHunting, and while I’m limping along using the .412” NE dies I luckily got there, it’s not as easy as you would think. If you re-bored the gun, you’d probably just be trading one problem/ challenge for another.
Presently I’m pursuing a truly custom die set from CH4D, for a .408” bullet, using modern Kynoch BPE brass I bought. Hopefully I don’t experience what Daryl got. My long experience with CH4D has always been quite perfect. Hope it remains this way

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bouldersmith
.375 member


Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: pamtnman]
      #345238 - 21/09/20 11:54 PM

I would think a neck sizing die and expander of proper dimension and you will be in business. I neck size almost everything these days and rarely full length size.

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: bouldersmith]
      #345240 - 22/09/20 02:33 AM

I, as well, bouldersmith & if not straight neck sizing, I am partial full length sizing by adjusting the die higher in the press. That is especially important with belted magnum cases.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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3DogMike
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1464
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Purdey 450/400 express(10,3x60R) [Re: DarylS]
      #345248 - 22/09/20 10:58 AM

Same as Daryl & Steve, back out the FL size die so it only sizes the neck..

The quick and easy way to neck size would be a .41 Mag die if there is no better available option. Then if necessary alter the expander plug to specific diameter.

Still and all I would bet that any .450/400 3 1/4 (or 3”) die would size the neck enough to work with a .408” bullet.
Alter the expander plug/ball to suit.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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