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themauserkid
.275 member

Reged: 21/06/15
Posts: 85
Loc: Texas

German retailed m1908
#343514 - 23/07/20 02:17 AM

I recently bought a 1908 retailed in Suhl, and had a question on the scope mounts. I’m not sure if they are Austrian or German in original but they are numbered to the rifle and marked O.Sch. on the rings as well as down inside the mill cut for the front block. Anyone have a clue what maker this is, it maybe common but I’m relatively new to M-S. They are a little higher than typical as it has a Zielsechs and needs the room to unseat the claws and clear that larger objective.

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: German retailed m1908 [Re: themauserkid]
#343553 - 23/07/20 10:16 PM

Rothhammer will be your man here matey - knows his MS's!
If our European members like Rolf or Kuduae chime in they might also know straight off the cuff.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: German retailed m1908 [Re: 93x64mm]
#343584 - 24/07/20 02:56 PM

Quote:

Rothhammer will be your man here matey - knows his MS's!
If our European members like Rolf or Kuduae chime in they might also know straight off the cuff.

Sadly, I must disappoint.

From what I've read, scope mounting of the pre WW2 MS was done outside of the Steyr factory. It was 'farmed out' to local guild craftsmen or was simply aftermarket. Some were of the 'Vienna snapper' type, some claw mount. Parts of early MS scope mounts very seldom interchange.

I have absolutely no information regarding the specific Austrian or German shops that crafted and installed the mounts.

My M1910 Takedown wears a Gerard 'B' on claw mounts of unknown origin. It may have been ordered scoped or may have been scoped in England (it has British and Austrian proofs) or in Ceylon where My Grandfather purchased it second hand circa 1931.

It is an interesting coincidence that yours bears the initial 'O.Sch.', the same as Otto Schoenauer.

Otto

Image from 1939 Stoeger of 'Vienna Snapper' mounted scope:

'Original factory mount'? Not at the Steyr factory, as far as I know.

Claw mount on 'Mousie':

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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themauserkid
.275 member

Reged: 21/06/15
Posts: 85
Loc: Texas

Re: German retailed m1908 [Re: Rothhammer1]
#343617 - 25/07/20 12:37 PM

Not a disappointment, I always like your posts, thanks for taking the time. If the rings alone were marked that would be one thing, but with the flat of the receiver dovetail having been marked, it is clearly the same maker building and installing these. For example, Mahrholdt making and installing their proprietary mounts and untold numbers of other makers doing the same so this could be really tough to track down. Thinking on Sch names there would be at least a dozen possibilities to explore. Also this rifle was retailed by Emil Kerner if that helps with any correlations.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: German retailed m1908 [Re: themauserkid]
#343621 - 25/07/20 02:12 PM

Quote:

Not a disappointment, I always like your posts, thanks for taking the time. ...Thinking on Sch names there would be at least a dozen possibilities to explore. Also this rifle was retailed by Emil Kerner if that helps with any correlations.

Thank you, sir, and best of luck to you on this information quest.

I'll be watching with interest and hope a member with the specific information you desire will provide same. We all add to our knowledge base by viewing these threads on NitroExpress.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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chapmen
.300 member

Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 234
Loc: Middle of germany

Re: German retailed m1908 [Re: Rothhammer1]
#343630 - 25/07/20 05:33 PM

In Suhl at this time were several small firms specialized in mounting and also specialized in mounting parts. So this can be the mark of an gunsmith or an specialized provider, its not that rare to find this kind of markings on mountings.
The first thought by me for "O.Sch." was Otto Scherell, well known gunsmith in Berlin and Delitsch/Saxonia, but this makes not big sense with Kerner as signed retailer. However, it is possible that Scherell did the mounting later if the rifle was not sold with mounts.Its just one of the many possible options..............
A lot is conceivable, and a lot is immersed in history.

--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

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themauserkid
.275 member

Reged: 21/06/15
Posts: 85
Loc: Texas

Re: German retailed m1908 [Re: chapmen]
#343643 - 26/07/20 12:41 AM

Thank you for the insight, I have to imagine that is very likely the scenario and great to have a good lead on a smith! I’ll try to get the Zielsechs dated to help piece together a timeline. I know this is not that unusual, it’s just really interesting to dig into its history, and these mounts add an additional perspective to that.

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chapmen
.300 member

Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 234
Loc: Middle of germany

Re: German retailed m1908 [Re: themauserkid]
#343727 - 27/07/20 04:39 PM

Dating a Zeiss riflescope is very difficult, there are no lists from Zeiss that enable dating using the serial number. I have been several times in the Zeiss Archive for this. Zeiss used an abstract SN system that give nothing out. Be patient with dates for Zeiss scopes that are given in the web.

Could you post some pics from the mounts?

--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

Edited by chapmen (27/07/20 04:43 PM)

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