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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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tinker
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Loc: Nevada
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: DarylS]
      #347252 - 28/11/20 05:33 AM

Yes, that hollow point is huge and deep.
You could drink from it.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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rigbymauser
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: tinker]
      #347254 - 28/11/20 06:25 AM

My intension with this rifle is to take it to Africa hunting warthogs to kudu. Heavier game like kudu will natually get a solid.

Warthogs, impalas and that size gets “hollowed”

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vandeusenps
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #347282 - 29/11/20 08:42 AM

Quote:

My intension with this rifle is to take it to Africa hunting warthogs to kudu. Heavier game like kudu will natually get a solid.

Warthogs, impalas and that size gets “hollowed”



That sounds like a great idea! Please post a summary of your trip here when you return!

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: vandeusenps]
      #350430 - 17/02/21 05:59 AM

I have started load developments for this gun. I have realized how 2grains of smokeless powder can change a grouping at 100m dramaticly. I can not post pictures these days as my computer is broke and Imgur doesn’t accept my iPad or cellphone.

Edited by rigbymauser (17/02/21 07:20 AM)

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3DogMike
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #350438 - 17/02/21 08:47 AM

Great fun for you!
Out of curiosity, what powder and load are you trying? As well what mix of bullet metal are you using?

I'm PM'ing my email address if you want to email some pictures I can post via IMGUR for you.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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rigbymauser
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 3DogMike]
      #350439 - 17/02/21 08:57 AM

Quote:

Great fun for you!
Out of curiosity, what powder and load are you trying? As well what mix of bullet metal are you using?

I'm PM'ing my email address if you want to email some pictures I can post via IMGUR for you.
- Mike



I use Norma 200. The alloy is 5% tin 95% lead.

PM sent

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3DogMike
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #350441 - 17/02/21 09:36 AM

Cheers Jens, here you go.
Nice rifle and good 1st efforts with the loads.
- Mike

8 shots at 100 meters
Brass formed from shortened .470NE, 370 grain bullet of 1-20 tin/lead, foam backer rod.
54 grains of N200









--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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3DogMike
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 3DogMike]
      #350442 - 17/02/21 09:44 AM

100 meter load reduced 2 grains to 52 grains N200 with the 370 grain SWC







--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 3DogMike]
      #350443 - 17/02/21 09:45 AM

Thanks Mike.

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3DogMike
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #350444 - 17/02/21 09:47 AM

Snow & freezing cold here, no target shooting for me!
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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3DogMike
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 3DogMike]
      #350901 - 28/02/21 02:41 AM

Here's Jens' latest group, his caption is "getting closer to something useful now".
Not marked as to which are rights and lefts, but assuming still shooting a bit apart?
Looks like a very acceptable 100meter group to me. These days my old(ish) eyes would be quite happy if I did that 100meter group with express sights.

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 3DogMike]
      #350903 - 28/02/21 03:01 AM

Thanks Mike.

No..I havent yet ‘marked’ left or right...but I will.

I must also start chronographing.

I can tell there is a slight slowdown coming from 54grain to 51grain of N0rma 200. When shooting these last loads I can detect the bullet impact. The 54grain loads the bang and bulletimpact goes into ‘one’.

Yes...things are starting to look right. I will soon try the roundnosed HPs. Maybe the roundnosed bullet shows better results as that was the original style bullet used for this type of the 1880s doublerifle.

Point of aim is still ‘6’ at six O’clock using ironsights.

Edited by rigbymauser (28/02/21 03:02 AM)

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Parabola
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #350904 - 28/02/21 03:50 AM

When I had a .500 I found that the 440 gr. gas check Lee mould for the .500 S&W which drops bullets at about .501” would work well in Nitro for Black loads if paper patched up to .512”.

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: Parabola]
      #350905 - 28/02/21 04:39 AM

Quote:

When I had a .500 I found that the 440 gr. gas check Lee mould for the .500 S&W which drops bullets at about .501” would work well in Nitro for Black loads if paper patched up to .512”.



I have tried a few different 440grains but no succes. Also in combination with different powders. Simply spreads too much.

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3DogMike
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #351179 - 07/03/21 03:11 PM

Hi Jens,
I have finally gotten to check the twist on my Ingram .500BPE and the barrels are 1 turn in 41" as best I can measure.
Barrels are 28" and the rifle weighs 8lbs 10oz. Proof marks indicate some time after 1887.

interestingly enough my rifle does quite well with a 440 grain paper patch bullet and 58 grains of H4198, backer rod, and Federal 215 primers. Have not chronographed that load.
The bullets are cast of 1-20 from a Tom Ballard adjustable mould and are patched to ~ .509" diameter with Onion Skin paper, thin smear of SPG lube on the paper patch. I put one .515" punched out "milk carton" wad under the bullet to protect the base and paper patch.
Groups (2 rights, 2 lefts) run about 2 1/2' at 50 yards. I don't have a suitable 100 yard setup, perhaps the shots would spread apart at that range?
I more often shoot 365 grain gas check .510' diameter grooved bullets with the same powder charge.
- Mike



--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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tinker
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Posts: 4835
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 3DogMike]
      #351187 - 07/03/21 03:58 PM

8lbs 10oz with 28" tubes

That must handle nicely

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: tinker]
      #351201 - 07/03/21 08:08 PM

Quote:

8lbs 10oz with 28" tubes

That must handle nicely



It does. Min is about there too.

Mike:

Mine has the same twist but dislike 440grain.

My 52 grain load with Norma powder and 370grain has been chronographed in a HH .500 to 495 m/sec(1624 ft/sec). My 51 grain load however is the best.
I wonder if my rifle regulates with a 370grain SWC style bullet @ 1600 ft/sec, wich is very sweet to shoot with is that gun ever could regulate with load going any faster?.

The SWC style bullet I use now ofcouse has different flightcharacteristics than a traditional roundnose has and maybe my 340 HPs can be driven up to a regulating speed of 1800 ft/sec?...or in reality the velocities given in the books of the 1890s were really not the correct velocities?....It won’t be long before I have some 340grain HPs casted and the target will tell the truth.

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3DogMike
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #351207 - 08/03/21 01:38 AM

Tinker:
The Ingram does balance and swing really well. I find that I very much like the 28” barrels and about 8-9 lb weight of the vintage .450’s and .500’s, they hang just so.......and to me look more elegant than a shorter barrel.

Jens,
“....... ...or in reality the velocities given in the books of the 1890s were really not the correct velocities?.......”

My suspicion would be that, just like advertising today, the original velocity claims were “enhanced” a bit (or rounded up).

I have a few sources (Winfer is one) that mention 30” barrels were the standard for test in the Victorian/Edwardian era, the extra length over 26” or 28” could account for some the higher velocity claims.

Even vintage Nitro Express rifles often regulate nicely at lower speeds than claimed by Kynoch/Eley.

With these wonderful old rifles so much is now just mystery that is lost to the mists of time.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 3DogMike]
      #351209 - 08/03/21 02:48 AM

Quote:



Even vintage Nitro Express rifles often regulate nicely at lower speeds than claimed by Kynoch/Eley.

With these wonderful old rifles so much is now just mystery that is lost to the mists of time.
- Mike



Well..as discussed before...these old rifle takes a different approach than a modern high powered rifles that in general shoot accurate. Also one has to be in love with the era these old guns represents plus aquire knowledge too to see what you are buying. Then comes reloading technics etc.

These guns we like here on this forum is depended we like the history or era..just like Winchesters and Colts. Otherwise it will die out slowly. I can image all these blackpowder express hammerrifles in the 1940s were just standing here and there in homes being moved around for no activity to either been thrown out or ended as wallhangers with no value at all. Some might were kept as a family piece back then from some uncle or grandfather who used it in the colonies..but it hadn’ t been shot in 50 years time.

Edited by rigbymauser (08/03/21 02:50 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 3DogMike]
      #351292 - 11/03/21 01:51 AM

Quote:


My suspicion would be that, just like advertising today, the original velocity claims were “enhanced” a bit (or rounded up).




Come on Mike, I really believe the 300 yard leaf, 400 yard leaf and 500 yard leaf on my .450 NE were used a lot in the old days for accurate game sniping. They weren't there for marketing PR at all.

Quote:


With these wonderful old rifles so much is now just mystery that is lost to the mists of time.
- Mike



If they could speak and tell.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: rigbymauser]
      #351293 - 11/03/21 01:56 AM

Quote:

These guns we like here on this forum is depended we like the history or era..just like Winchesters and Colts. Otherwise it will die out slowly. I can image all these blackpowder express hammerrifles in the 1940s were just standing here and there in homes being moved around for no activity to either been thrown out or ended as wallhangers with no value at all. Some might were kept as a family piece back then from some uncle or grandfather who used it in the colonies..but it hadn’ t been shot in 50 years time.



Right up to the late 1980's and early 1990's they were available for very low prices, a thousand $A to maybe three or four times that. For the better ones, now a multiple up to twenty times to forty times those prices, depenging on the starting price.

I remember looking at a .375 H&H Mag German made side by side for $A1,300. Maybe early 1980s, 1983? That one still hurts. And bought a $400 M98 .30-06 instead. Just like now, I want a scope option on the .375, and it had no mount fittings. Plus the money for someone a yar or two out of high school. Still hurts though.

I have a couple of hammer double rifles now. Both need to be used.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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93x64mm
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: NitroX]
      #351324 - 11/03/21 10:46 PM

Quote:

......I remember looking at a .375 H&H Mag German made side by side for $A1,300. Maybe early 1980s, 1983? That one still hurts. And bought a $400 M98 .30-06 instead. Just like now, I want a scope option on the .375, and it had no mount fittings. Plus the money for someone a yar or two out of high school. Still hurts though.......


You will be kicking yourself every day until you get one John.....its the only way you'll ever forgive yourself for that blunder mate!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Cogswell & Harrison.500 express, London. [Re: 93x64mm]
      #351356 - 12/03/21 03:14 PM

Quote:

Quote:

......I remember looking at a .375 H&H Mag German made side by side for $A1,300. Maybe early 1980s, 1983? That one still hurts.



Oops error, it was A$1,100.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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