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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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Rolland
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Reged: 31/12/06
Posts: 281
Loc: Camp Verde, AZ
Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher
      #339324 - 24/03/20 10:03 AM

Has anyone ever made a commercial mount for the Dutch Mannlicher, I know it is offset to allow for the clip loading, or perhaps a swing mount.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: Rolland]
      #339326 - 24/03/20 11:21 AM

I had a rifle with a swing mount. It reduced my accuracy range to about 200yards, which is easily met with iron sights, thus, to me, a swing mounted scope is superfluous and as such, has no value.

Fill your boots though, if you want one, it's your rifle.

Much slimmer and happier without glass on such a rifle.

There are or can be extenuating circumstances such as mere desire or eye sight problems.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: DarylS]
      #339341 - 24/03/20 02:22 PM

For the same money, a cocking-piece peep sight would be far better IMHO.

Add class, not glass!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9033
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Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: Marrakai]
      #339360 - 25/03/20 05:12 AM

M 95 is a classic rifle and needs a classic scope mount - I could not sleep having such a rifle in the gunsafe with a modern mount!
the german solution was allways a suhl claw mount, most times set over the receiver. I remove the scope, load the clip and set the scope again in seconds and 5 cartridges are more than enough for 99% of all hunting situations. the british had, most times very small, scopes on the side so you load the clip but the scope out of the middle is imho, only second best.
I think you have problems to find a craftsman who can make a claw mount in your area. another classic solution would be a side mount and EAW makes it for the mannlicher schönauer https://www.eaw.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/EAW2017.pdf
so it fits the M 95 receiver





having the scope in the middle but any gunmaker /toolmaker is able to change it so you habe the scope on the side. I for myself would not being cheap and get a gun with a idiot scope mount.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: lancaster]
      #339379 - 25/03/20 07:28 PM

Quote:

M 95 is a classic rifle and needs a classic scope mount - I could not sleep having such a rifle in the gunsafe with a modern mount!





Mounts from 1939 Stoeger Catalog:

The MS above wears a 'Vienna snapper' mount, the Mauser below a claw mount.


Another pre WW2 mount and a few scopes:



Some 'postwar' examples
1954:


1958:



MS (post- WW2) 'swing away' mount:


--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: Marrakai]
      #339380 - 25/03/20 07:44 PM

Quote:

For the same money, a cocking-piece peep sight would be far better IMHO.

Add class, not glass!



Such as these?

Lyman 1A:


Parker Hale Sportarget:


Lyman 36:


--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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DonZ
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Reged: 24/12/12
Posts: 120
Loc: BW
Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #339387 - 26/03/20 04:37 AM

I have a Lyman peep sight on my M1910.. I've also recently noticed the front sight post is also a Lyman.

Thoughts:

Probably a great idea when I was in my teens and twenties, and could hit targets with iron sights at 500 yards. Today: Not so much.

Not sure I like that Lyman front sight. It may have been white once (honestly, I thought it was ivory at one point), but it's grown gray over time. Would prefer the original "German Silver". Honestly, there are times I cannot see the FSP. Not fun.

Reading glasses help me find the FSP, if there is a lot of light... but then I can't see the target.

So I'm pretty much stuck to targets within 100m, on bright sunny days. And forget about snap shots.

Glass would be nice. I wouldn't mind finding an old style Springer mount, knowing its disadvantages. I'm willing to spring for an EAW mount... but honestly, none of the "modern" scopes would look right on this rifle. I need to find an older Kahles, in good condition. Maybe a nice 4 power scope.

Here's a thought: Does anyone know of a "modern" manufacturer that makes "old looking" scopes?

--------------------
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age...

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lancaster
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Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: DonZ]
      #339388 - 26/03/20 04:40 AM

ebay and egun in germany are full with period correct scopes, bought them all there

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: DonZ]
      #339392 - 26/03/20 04:58 AM

Quote:

I have a Lyman peep sight on my M1910..



I guess I'm lucky. My M1910 has a claw mounted Gerard B (4X, post recticle) scope and the factory installed 'special folding peep'.



--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #339394 - 26/03/20 05:08 AM

Quote:

I think you have problems to find a craftsman who can make a claw mount in your area. another classic solution would be a side mount and EAW makes it for the mannlicher schönauer https://www.eaw.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/EAW2017.pdf so it fits the M 95 receiver


Caution! As I know from my own experience, the side mount advertised by EAW as for „Steyr Mannl. Schönauer GK“ is made to fit the post-1952 M-S rifles with the flat surface on the receiver, covered by the factory with a dummy sideplate. See Rothhammer’s post above of a page 18 of a Stoeger catalog,SPECIAL PROVISION FOR DOMESTIC SIDE MOUNTS, the top drawing. So this mount has a flat baseplate, intended to replace the dummy plate A. This mount can not be mounted on any prewar Mannlicher-Schoenauer receiver, let alone a M92 – M95 Mannlicher. On these earlier rifles you have to use the mount advertised as for „Carl Gustav 1900“, the Swedish small ring Mausers, as I did on my Gibbs M-S M1903.

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: Rolland]
      #339486 - 28/03/20 11:15 AM

Rolland, The British generally built Mannlichers with no scope mounts however scopes were not completely uncommon. Some were offset as you said but many were also mounted centrally with QD rings which were usually custom made as were the bases. As the rifle was designed as a stalking rifle having five shots was considered plenty as needing more than five rounds on one animal would have been considered un-sportsman like. Having said that removing and replacing the scope can be done in seconds if the rings and bases are designed properly. The Europeans used mainly claw mounts or Vienna Springer type mounts whereas the British had quite a variety of custom made mounts. If you check out this post there a quite a number with scopes.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=197170&an=0&page=1#Post197170


As for using the Steyr factory mounts as made after the war, these wont work on an 1895 as the receiver is round at the bridge whereas the Mannlicher Schoenauer, for which these mounts were designed, has a bridge which has flats on either side. The Steyr factory mounts are made for this type of bridge and the rear base is designed to sit on a flat surface rather than curved. Having said that that system could be copied and the rear base made with a curved surface. That particular set-up works very well and returns to zero perfectly, and allows you to swing the scope slightly to the side to load another clip, however it is definitely post war in styling.

Another option is some H&H style mounts as seen her on a magnificent little H&H MS1903 owned by Paradox. These a very classic British.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post311228

A one piece side mount is another option but a custom base may have to be made to fit the receiver.

I am in the same boat as you at the moment deciding what to do as far as optics.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2443
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: DonZ]
      #339487 - 28/03/20 11:18 AM

Don, the closest modern scope that you will get to look like a period scope is the Swarovski Z3 3-9x36 which is excellent and looks very good.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #339488 - 28/03/20 12:03 PM

Here's a mount I made for a Mannlicher several years ago. It's loosely based on the old Miller Kodiak.


http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....true#Post217475

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: MikeRowe]
      #339490 - 28/03/20 01:24 PM

Neat solution Mike.

Matt.

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There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #339491 - 28/03/20 01:33 PM

Just for information sake. I measured the barrel just ahead of the receiver on a M1895 and a MS1903 and they are the same diameter which means that you could actually use the font base and ring from a Steyr factory mount on a M1895. The rear base would have to be either custom made or an original modified. I will have a look and let you know if this can be done.

The advantage with the Steyr factory mounts is that the release lever for the rear ring is at the back LHS and gets pushed forward with the right thumb (Right handed shooter) which allows you to pivot the scope enough with the left hand to drop another clip in should you need too.

I will report back.


Matt.

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There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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DonZ
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Reged: 24/12/12
Posts: 120
Loc: BW
Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #339508 - 28/03/20 08:24 PM

Thank you. I was considering the Blaser Infinity 1-7x28, but cannot justify the price, and I'm not sure the rail on the bottom of the scope would work. I've been checking eGun for an older Kahles or Swarovski, but just haven't seen the right one, and of course there are always unseen scratches on the lenses, or fogging, or other bugbears that you can't tell unless you hold it in your hand. I went to Johann Springer in Vienna in November, but the clerk was less than helpful and I need to reach out to the actual gunsmiths. Of course, with everyone shut in, that may simply have to wait. Perhaps I'll just simply carry it with iron sights in September, and use my more modern rifle/scope combo as a back up.

--------------------
Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age...

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Re: Scope mount for m95 Dutch Mannlicher [Re: DonZ]
      #339529 - 29/03/20 10:07 AM

So I had a look at the rear base and the factory unit cannot be used as it is, as the mounting tabs have two holes which are counterbored to take cheesehead screws. The thickness of the tab is such that when counterbored to the depth of the head, the amount of material remaining at the bottom of the tab is only fairly thin. If you were to machine a radius at the back of the original base then all the material at the bottom of the tab would disappear and the screw head would fall through.
The only way would be to make a new rear base with thicker tabs or instead using countersunk screws to allow for the radius at the back of the base. One could use all the remaining parts from the original base.

Interestingly a Kahles Helia S2 2.3-7x32 is exactly the correct length for such a set-up giving the correct eye relief and objective bell position.

Another option especially if the scope used is a little longer is to do the same as Joel Dorleac does with many of his rifles where he machines up a custom rear sight base and fits the claw base in with the rear sights. In this case one could also use a Recknagel front ring pivot base and use the Recknagel front rings and a Steyr type custom rear base and ring.

I am also looking at how to fit a small catch at the bottom of the magazine box to catch the En Block clip as it comes out so they don't drop onto the ground unless you want them too but rather can be released into your hand when you want to catch it. I will report back on that one as I have a few ideas.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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