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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns
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Woldan
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Reged: 17/03/16
Posts: 32
Loc: Austria
Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun?
      #339322 - 24/03/20 09:32 AM

Hello!

Recently I acquired a short double barrel hammer shotgun and I cannot find out its manufacturing date nor the manufacturer. Or rather, I know the manufacturer since there is a tiny stamp on the side of the barrels that says ''PIEPER'', but the only information that I could find is that it was a Spanish or Belgian (?) manufacturer, that's about it.

Is anybody more knowledgeable on this subject?

Here is the gun, which is actually really nice.

It has a greener bolt, 2 real side locks with hammers, it is chambered in 12 gauge (12 3/4) and coach gun-sized, but is has chokes.









Edited by Woldan (24/03/20 09:51 AM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: Woldan]
      #339327 - 24/03/20 11:26 AM

Appears to be a brand new modern made gun - 1st of all due to the chokes on such short barrels and secondly due to the modern look of it in general, including the modern colour cased action - maybe be Belgium as were original Piepers but could also be a Pedersoli under license?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Woldan
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Reged: 17/03/16
Posts: 32
Loc: Austria
Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: DarylS]
      #339330 - 24/03/20 11:37 AM

Quote:

Appears to be a brand new modern made gun - 1st of all due to the chokes on such short barrels and secondly due to the modern look of it in general, including the modern colour cased action - maybe be Belgium as were original Piepers but could also be a Pedersoli under license?



Stupid me, I forgot to add the pictures of the underside of the barrels:




(Thats not pitting, just oil & fat)

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Wayne59
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: Woldan]
      #339332 - 24/03/20 12:19 PM

That is a Spanish double. Pieper is a Belgium made double. Or at least they used to be. Very interesting. Would make a nice double rifle for Bp cartridges.

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Woldan
.224 member


Reged: 17/03/16
Posts: 32
Loc: Austria
Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: Wayne59]
      #339334 - 24/03/20 12:36 PM

Quote:

That is a Spanish double. Pieper is a Belgium made double. Or at least they used to be. Very interesting. Would make a nice double rifle for Bp cartridges.



That thought had crossed my mind as well! Its a two lug action with a greener cross bolt, and it is very tight. Maybe in .450 BP Express? Or 45-70 / 45-90?

Too bad I don't know anybody here who could do this kind of work, and I probably could not even afford it anyway.

Edited by Woldan (24/03/20 12:47 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: Woldan]
      #339339 - 24/03/20 01:40 PM

My thought would be to leave it as a 12 bore, but shorten the tubes to behind the chokes, or install rifled chokes if it
has screw-in chokes. It has 2 3/4" chambers as well.
Make a nice SxS 12 bore for round ball shooting with black or smokeless powder - or you could rifle the chokes if fixed
using another barrel as a guide. That would be fun! Slow twists for round ball, patched in cloth, of course.
A ML barrel with 48" to even 80" rate of twist would work just fine. The slowest I have right now, is a 66" twist, fastest
is 48" - in ML's.
A V or U notched rear sight is easily installed in the solid rib by cutting a 3/8" dovetail.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Woldan
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Reged: 17/03/16
Posts: 32
Loc: Austria
Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: DarylS]
      #339351 - 25/03/20 04:38 AM

I DO load my own specialty shells! Among them .725 round balls, pumpkin balls as they are called in the US if I am not mistaken. I also load the air pellet shaped full bore .72 cal projectiles that weigh in excess of 700 grains, and buck & ball.



Sadly I think the barrels of this shotgun are too thin to rifle them to turn them into a paradox. I always toyed with the idea of using rifled chokes but so far I have not acquired a shotgun suitable for it.

I do have a small single shot break action shotgun that shoots the balls into a palm sized group at 50 meters even without rifling, but oh boy it kicks the everloving **** out of me. My most accurate load is that 540 grain roundball at 1600 fp/s, but said shotgun weighs around 5.5lbs or so and has a 20'' barrel. But it does have rifle sights.
It recoils worse than a 500 nitro express and I'm always afraid of breaking the stock.


Reminds me, I've always wanted one of those H&R break action shotguns with a heavy rifled barrel but it is impossible to get them here in Europe. We do not have shotgun seasons so nobody is interested in them.
That thing would be the holy grail for me.

Edited by Woldan (25/03/20 04:47 AM)

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lancaster
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: Woldan]
      #339354 - 25/03/20 04:51 AM

Henri Pieper, alias Bayard



was a well respected name form Liege, its not impossible that a small maker from spain "borrow" the name

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: lancaster]
      #339355 - 25/03/20 05:03 AM

Good for you, Woldon.
Yes - Pieper was a well known French manufacturer
and it's true, Lancaster not at all strange for either
Belgium or Spanish makers to "borrow" a name.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: DarylS]
      #339361 - 25/03/20 05:27 AM

pieper was not french but belgian
in fact Henry Pieper was born as a german but became a belgian citizen. dont think it was possible to borrow the name in belgium, pieper would have grilled them, but in spain they copy anything that was selling

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Marrakai
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: lancaster]
      #339366 - 25/03/20 10:50 AM

Not just in Spain!
Although the Belgian trade was a little more subtle.
If only I had a dollar for every Richard Burton or W.Richards gun with the Perron and ELG stamps...

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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lancaster
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: Marrakai]
      #339371 - 25/03/20 03:41 PM



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: lancaster]
      #339401 - 26/03/20 05:43 AM

Sry lancaster - Belgium, not French.

what about W.W. Greenor

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: DarylS]
      #339404 - 26/03/20 06:04 AM

have seen different belgian fake british names but dont believe a belgian top dog like pieper would have tolerate this by a fellow countryman. if doing this in spain it was very hard than to get the faker from belgium like to catch them in belgium when you were in britain.
I can't imagine the british gunmaker were amused by this things.
its the same today with china.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: lancaster]
      #339411 - 26/03/20 09:03 AM

You are right with that, lancaster. It is quite doubtful that Pieper did such business.
Yes, it is the same with China. You can buy, from China, a Leupold scope, complete with the name and gold ring, for $35.00 ea including shipping if you buy 3.

I've seen them listed on E-Bay as well, for $150.00 ea.
Leupold, as well as W.W.Greener so many years ago, printed & is printing warnings about the fakes.
Wesley Richards
Westly Richards were a couple more.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Woldan
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Loc: Austria
Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: DarylS]
      #339418 - 26/03/20 12:17 PM

In any case, what I can say is that the shotgun is very well crafted, at least in my limited experience. The action is smooth as can be, the locks are a work of art and the fit of metal-metal and metal-wood is just excellent. The engraving is ok though, it shows a dog and some ducks, very minimalistic.

I used to have a Simson & Suhl SxS shotgun and this leaps and bounds better than it. Whoever made this, knew a thing or two about building shotguns.

Funny thing is, I was not in the market for a new shotgun or any gun for that matter when I saw it, but I had to have it. I'm a sucker for case hardening and I adore doubles. There was only 2 minutes between spotting it and handing over the money. Paid 450 for it.

Edited by Woldan (26/03/20 12:28 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: Woldan]
      #339424 - 26/03/20 04:00 PM

no doubt that spanish gunmaker know their business like the belgians.
it were the cheap guns und the product piracy in the past that ruin the name. many quality guns in the past and today were made in belgium and in spain but get another name sometimes by a best british firm.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: Woldan]
      #339426 - 26/03/20 04:29 PM

Quote:

In any case, what I can say is that the shotgun is very well crafted, at least in my limited experience. The action is smooth as can be, the locks are a work of art and the fit of metal-metal and metal-wood is just excellent. The engraving is ok though, it shows a dog and some ducks, very minimalistic.

I used to have a Simson & Suhl SxS shotgun and this leaps and bounds better than it. Whoever made this, knew a thing or two about building shotguns.

Funny thing is, I was not in the market for a new shotgun or any gun for that matter when I saw it, but I had to have it. I'm a sucker for case hardening and I adore doubles. There was only 2 minutes between spotting it and handing over the money. Paid 450 for it.



I think it is a good buy. I would leave it as it is and use it. Shorter barrels sure, see how it shoots with slugs, brenneckes and SGs and SSGs (large "buck" shot). Plus the usual bird shot.

I would find such a gun useful for fox drives, shooting from boats, thick duck swamps plus pigs.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: Unknown ''PIEPER'' SxS shotgun? [Re: NitroX]
      #339446 - 27/03/20 03:11 AM

Yeah - cool on pigs (or anything) in tight spots.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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