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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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Lee440
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Reged: 06/01/06
Posts: 47
Loc: Texas
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: tinker]
      #338474 - 28/02/20 03:28 AM

Bore size on a 318 is .330, a 333 is .333. You would have to go up to a 35 caliber if you want to rebore. Been there, done that, got the T shirt.

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Lee440]
      #338475 - 28/02/20 03:44 AM

I’ve read that a rebore requires .030” over groove to work reliably.
Of course, a 318WR (.330” groove) to 35 Whelen (.358”) is actually .028” difference but seems to work out well.
My guess is that the barrel is drilled out a couple thou over groove, maybe more if there’s pitting so a 318 would end up with a bore of at least .333-.334 so that is why one cannot be rebored for the 333 Jeffery.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: DarylS]
      #338476 - 28/02/20 04:19 AM

Quote:

It is an octagon-round with a full length integral rib. It has all the usual German proof marks, dated 12/26. I’m not sure about the Bayard marking on the action of what appears to be a German made rifle built on a commercial Mauser action.


Not really a commercial Mauser action, as the "Bayard" mark shows. But this is a lengthy story. When WW1 broke out, all nations soon found out they had far to few rifles to supply the vastly expanding numbers of their armies. In Germany, the existing factories making Gewehr 98 rifles could not meet the demand. So from 1915 on part of the Gew98 production was "decentralized", with many other companies supplying parts. Several Suhl gunmakers, Haenel, Schilling, Sauer & Sohn and Simson, supplied complete Gew98 rifles put together from parts made in house and bought in. The bottleneck of M98 production was always the making of receivers, requiring special machines. The Suhl makers never produced a single 98 receiver. They depended on machined receivers from other sources. Most of the "Suhl" receivers came from the government arsenals Spandau ad Erfurt, but many were supplied and marked by SH = Siemens & Halske and Bayard = Pieper in occupied Liege, Belgium. Why Pieper? Imho this was merely a cover up of the real source, FN in Herstal near Liege. Officially the patriotic Belgian Fabrique Nationale never collaborated with the German occupation. To me, this is incredible. I can not imagine that big factory and all it's workers sitting idle for four years. Alas, up to WW1 the majority shareholder of FN was the German DWM, Pieper being the second largest one.
In November 1917, a year before WW1 ended, the making of Gew98 rifles in Suhl was stopped, as the German armies by now had more rifles than men. But lots of parts in various stages of completion were left over in Suhl. During the interwar years, up to WW2, the Suhl gunmakers used these action parts from the WW1 production to build sporting rifles. Accordingly, Mauser sales of commercial actions plummeted. There were plenty of cheap M98 large ring, standard length actions floating around. So nowadays you often find Suhl made sporting rifles as well as Remo and Geha shotgun conversions with that mysterious "Bayard" mark beneath the receiver ring to confuse collectors.
BTW, the barrel of this .318WR rifle was made by the well known Suhl barrelmaker WK = Wilhelm Kelber, Beiersgrund 3, Suhl.

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Mvick
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Reged: 11/02/20
Posts: 12
Loc: South Dakota
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: DarylS]
      #338489 - 28/02/20 09:49 AM

Quote:

Interesting charts, but incorrect as to the shoulder dia. on the 9.3x62. I now have measured cases from 3 different factory 9.3x62's and the shoulders are not .442",
nor are they another number I've seen posted, they are all .454" and that is fired, so the chambers will quite likely be 1" larger than that.
The bullet dia. listed is also incorrect as it is listed at .363".
Sometimes charts aren't very good for reference when actual diameters are important.





I ran across this on Ammoguide about dimensions for the 9.3x62. May account for discrepancies.


CAUTION: Reloaders should be aware that there appears to be TWO variations of "9.3x62mm" brass in commercial
production. The body diameter of the standard 9.3x62mm Mauser (as produced by European makers) can be as large as .477" near the head. (PT&G print #706 indicates a corresponding minimum chamber head diameter of .4793".) However, at least one American maker produces a "9.3x62mm" (note the absence of "Mauser" in the designation) based off the .30-06 standard with a maximum body diameter near the head of .470". (PT&G print #449 for the "9.3x62 U.S.A. MATCH" calls out a corresponding minimum chamber head diameter of .472".) Reloaders should insure their load data is adjusted appropriately and their brass and resizing dies are correct for their chamber. Repeated shooting and resizing of the smaller diameter brass in the larger chamber will seriously overwork and weaken the case, increasing the possibility of catastrophic head failure.

Edited by Mvick (28/02/20 09:51 AM)

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Mvick
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/20
Posts: 12
Loc: South Dakota
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Mvick]
      #338490 - 28/02/20 10:26 AM

Kuduae-
What you say makes perfect sense. The quality is certainly consistent with FN. I can find no reference to Pieper ever having made Mauser actions. Henri Pieper was one of the founders of FN.

The pear shaped bolt knob looks like a commercial Mauser. Could have been changed. A serial number and German proof mark appear on the bolt handle, 3443, and BV with a crown. The numeral 43 also appears on the extractor, so it seems the entire bolt might be German? The 3443 appears nowhere else on the action.
This photo illustrates the number and proof.

[IMG]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/mvick2/Mobile%20Uploads/E70BE8FC-1C13-43AB-BD93-B02E4F5A3E60.jpeg[/IMG]

Thoughts?

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: Mvick]
      #338503 - 28/02/20 09:00 PM

That crown/BV mark is not a German proofmark, but the "View" mark of the Birmingham proofhouse. As there are neither 3443 nor Birmingham proofmarks elsewhere on barrel or receiver, the bolt assembly has been swapped ´to a Mauser Commercial one, including the Lyman peep sight.

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Mvick
.224 member


Reged: 11/02/20
Posts: 12
Loc: South Dakota
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: kuduae]
      #338512 - 29/02/20 05:50 AM

That makes sense.
Presumably the head space needs to be checked? I imagine go no-go gauges are pretty rare in 318.

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: 318WR rifle issues [Re: kuduae]
      #338520 - 29/02/20 07:26 AM

Quote:

That crown/BV mark is not a German proofmark, but the "View" mark of the Birmingham proofhouse.



From the 1939 Stoeger catalog:


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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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