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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's
      #33825 - 25/06/05 02:06 PM

I am in need of an H&H expert. There is a nagging question to which I have no answer. A couple months ago I discussed this at some length with a prominent and knowledgeable member of this forum in a series of PM's. We are baffled for an answer. (Neither of us owns an H&H.)

Attached is a picture of the water table of an H&H Royal Hammerless Ejector .577 NE which I downloaded from the 'net and reduced in size.



My question is:

What is the purpose of the two buttons protruding vertically from the action bars?

Here's another image I pinched from the 'net. It is an H&H Dominion .577 BPE. It has similar buttons, albeit positioned differently.





What do these "buttons" do? Anybody?

Thanks,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Morten
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Reged: 24/04/04
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Loc: Ås, Norway
Re: Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's [Re: CptCurl]
      #33840 - 25/06/05 07:29 PM

Strange. I have no Idea. I think we have to ask som H&H owners to strip their gun and deskribe what it is. I Can also drop by their front shop later to day and ask.


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's [Re: Morten]
      #33841 - 25/06/05 07:40 PM

Compressors for the 'Easy Opener' or 'Assisted Opener' mechanism?

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Morten
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Re: Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's [Re: Marrakai]
      #33861 - 26/06/05 08:33 AM

Yeas and for cocking the gun. I droped by the h&h front shop to day and asked. It could have beene my bad english that did it but I realy had to show the salesmen what it was. And when he brouth up a gun of the right age he said that this he had never notised before. But he knew that it was as abowe described.

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Peterb
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Reged: 07/07/04
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Re: Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's [Re: CptCurl]
      #33895 - 27/06/05 06:14 AM

Insignificant point. The Brits get wild when we mention "water table". It makes sense as that is used in ship building and aeroplanes as a reference point. But the Brits insist that only "table" is proper. Evidently, "water table" likely started as a magazine writer's miscue. My Brit friends suggest around 1950, but I have seen it a couple decades earlier.

In any event, very nice gun you have there.

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Morten
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Re: Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's [Re: Peterb]
      #33896 - 27/06/05 06:31 AM

The man is cheating. he he the photo is from drake.net

but that vas probably the best photo he found. and it very clearly show us what he ment.

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BFaucett
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Reged: 13/01/04
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Re: Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's [Re: Morten]
      #33907 - 27/06/05 10:54 AM

"What do these 'buttons' do?"

It's simple really: One is the dispenser for the Gin and the other is for the Tonic!

-Bob F.

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's [Re: BFaucett]
      #33935 - 27/06/05 02:52 PM

In reply to:

It's simple really: One is the dispenser for the Gin and the other is for the Tonic!





Bob,
If someone here in Aussieland was to buy that gun do you think the "buttons' could be converted to dispense Bundy rum from one and Coke from the other?

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webley
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Reged: 16/02/04
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Re: Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's [Re: Marrakai]
      #33952 - 27/06/05 04:55 PM

I don’t think they are compressors for an easy/assisted opening system (is there any type of assisted opening system fitted to either of the two guns illustrated anyway?).

They are retractors for the cocking rods which run from the knuckle to the front face of the tumber.

When the action is cocked the cocking dog on the forend pushes the cocking rod back against the tumbler (to cock it). Normally the rod would be left resting against the tumbler & have to be pushed forward as the tumbler fell to strike the firing pin (thus reducing the blow on the pin). The hidden ends of these buttons have angled ‘blades’ which protrude into a slot on the cocking rod – this slot has a matching slope to one end. As the button is pushed down the angled surfaces ensure the rod is pushed forward clear of the swing of the tumbler.

It’s originally a Perkes patented feature which is most often found on some of the back action sidelocks made by Scott. It was generally used on non-ejector guns but can be found on a few ejector models (due to differences in the lockwork on some ejector guns the buttons are actually redundant). I think that Perkes concern about reduction in tumbler stricken efficiency was proved to be unfunded so use of the feature gradually faded away. Scott themselves didn’t use the system on most of their back action guns. Blanch seemed to specifiy it for some of their Scott/W&S sourced guns into the 1900’s.

Regards
Webley

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's [Re: webley]
      #34014 - 28/06/05 08:54 PM

webley,

Thanks for the info. I suppose this mechanism is more relevant to cocking rods than cocking levers of the A&D design. Generally the cocking levers are spring loaded to retract them down away from the tumblers.

I would assume that on the H&H .577NE this is a vestige as it appears to have conventional A&D cocking levers. I can't tell how the Dominion is cocked.

Is my analysis consistent with your understanding of this mechanism?

Thanks,
Curl

P.S. Bob Faucett, I like the idea of gin and tonic better. Do you think you could apply for a patent for your mechanism? Or do you think somebody already patented the concept back in the "Golden Age?"

Cheers!
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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webley
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 33
Re: Strange buttons on water table of H&H DR's [Re: CptCurl]
      #34020 - 28/06/05 10:41 PM

Curl,
The Dominion is very likely cocked by the rods being pushed back by the dogs (which can be rollers in some cases) on the forend.

As I mentioned before - many Scott back acion sidelocks didn't have these cocking rod retraction buttons, it depended on the type of back action lockwork used (and also they were far less frequetly used on ejector guns).

Most H&H marketed (Scott built) Dominion guns didn't have the buttons either.

I've got two Scott built guns - one has buttons & one does not. Altough outwardly similar (even to similar pin placement on the locks) there are many differences evident when taken apart.

Regards
Webley

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