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I visited the Leupold display at SCI yesterday to see if they're still making the 1" tube scopes.
I was pleased to see the Vx3 line still in production, with relatively lightweight useful models in the display.
The Vx3 scopes on non-AO costing at or under $500

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Leupy IMHO is by far the best value for money scope in existence, bar none.

Is the glass the best? No. But it is plenty good. Do the turret adjustments have positive clicks? Well, no, they tend to be a bit mushy and don’t feel razor precise and positive (the $1500 MK IV I have is mushy but maybe the newer $3000 ones are better) . Do the adjustments track accurately? Well, yes they are pretty darn good. Is the scope durable? Hell yes! Is the warrantee good? The best in the business, and you probably will never need to find out. Are they one of the lightest and most compact scopes on the market? You bet ‘cha!!!

I now mostly have made the switch to S&B and other high end Euro glass, but I still have a few Leupy VXIII 1.5x5 1” tube scopes as well as a couple of VXII 1x4 scopes, as well as a 30mm MK IV tacticool 3.5x10 scope with mil dot SFP reticle (mentioned above) on a varmint .223 heavy barrel Sako.

I would really question the merit of complaints and whining about Leupold scopes.... They are damn good value for money.

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I visited the Leupold display at SCI yesterday to see if they're still making the 1" tube scopes.
I was pleased to see the Vx3 line still in production, with relatively lightweight useful models in the display.
The Vx3 scopes on non-AO costing at or under $500

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They have anything new on display??

I somewhat question if the VX3 is as good as it was prior to the change they did a few years ago.. BUT , I did put a VX3i LRP on a 6CM a couple years back... tracks very well... no issues …

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Are the older model Leups, Kahles, Zeiss, Swaros better than the newer versions/models they're putting out nowadays?

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I’d say that in the optics world, when dealing with the brands you are referencing above, the newer ones are generally better from the perspective that they offer wider fields of view and greater zoom ratios as well as clarity. I’d say that in my experience there certainly are no flies on the older models of the high end Euro scopes but in optics, over time you will see improvements in design, features and clarity. As others have pointed out, optical clarity has greatly improved across the board and Leupold is crowding the Euro glass although the Euro glass (again IMHO) is better, but significantly more expensive. Only the purchaser can decide if the price delta is worth it, no matter what others might think.

Check out this in depth and by all accounts, non-biased review of tactical scopes:

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/

Although it is not a direct comparison of hunting scopes, it does give you an idea of what it takes to be a “good” scope. An additional factor one must consider is size and weight. I for one would NEVER put a 2 pound narrow field of view high power tactical scope on a bolt action hunting rifle, much less a classic double rifle.

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My Ziess story:

Back in the mid-80's I was working as a Gunsmith in a Sporting Goods store in Northern California. The Store belonged to a National Sporting Goods Store Association. The owners went to the big show and did a huge buy of Ziess binoculars and scopes-somewhere around a hundred units as memory serves. The items came in mid summer and we quickly sold out. By January we had a 100% return on every unit. They leaked and fogged in the wet rainy climate. Even the Marine binoculars got wet. Early season we also had a number of scopes returned for dust. Hunters traveling the dusty mountain logging roads of northern California had all kinds of problems with dust getting inside. Once the the rains started the fogged scopes and binocular started coming in.

This problem wasn't Unique to Ziess, we had fogged scopes come back for everybody. Ziess only refunded, no repair and only paid on return. The two biggest sellers in the store at that time were Leupold and Tasco World Class. We had very few returns for them. Leupold would repair, exchange, credit or refund. Tasco Exchanged and refunded if requested. And, the Tasco's had the fewest returns and the highest sales.


Now My German Quality Story:

Again in the late 80's early 90's I attended a sales seminar at the SHOT show for SIG. The were announcing a new model made on some new manufacturing process that had increased production volume, retained quality and lowered cost of manufacture-CNC-Polymer moulding? I don't recall. The question was asked at the seminar, if it cost less to manufacture would that lower the retail price. The Nice man with the heavy German Accent responded, "Oh no, this is a German Gun, people expect to pay more."

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My Ziess story:

Back in the mid-80's I was working as a Gunsmith in a Sporting Goods store in Northern California. The Store belonged to a National Sporting Goods Store Association. The owners went to the big show and did a huge buy of Ziess binoculars and scopes-somewhere around a hundred units as memory serves. The items came in mid summer and we quickly sold out. By January we had a 100% return on every unit. They leaked and fogged in the wet rainy climate. Even the Marine binoculars got wet. Early season we also had a number of scopes returned for dust. Hunters traveling the dusty mountain logging roads of northern California had all kinds of problems with dust getting inside. Once the the rains started the fogged scopes and binocular started coming in.

This problem wasn't Unique to Ziess, we had fogged scopes come back for everybody. Ziess only refunded, no repair and only paid on return. The two biggest sellers in the store at that time were Leupold and Tasco World Class. We had very few returns for them. Leupold would repair, exchange, credit or refund. Tasco Exchanged and refunded if requested. And, the Tasco's had the fewest returns and the highest sales.


Now My German Quality Story:

Again in the late 80's early 90's I attended a sales seminar at the SHOT show for SIG. The were announcing a new model made on some new manufacturing process that had increased production volume, retained quality and lowered cost of manufacture-CNC-Polymer moulding? I don't recall. The question was asked at the seminar, if it cost less to manufacture would that lower the retail price. The Nice man with the heavy German Accent responded, "Oh no, this is a German Gun, people expect to pay more."

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At the other end. I was talking with the owner of one of the largest gunshops in Brisbane back around 2004. he told me of two Ziess binoculars that were brought in with faults. The first had the lens coatings starting to go opaque. Zeiss fixed these and returned them at no cost. The second the was becoming blury, lens had moved. Ziess fixed and returned but charge the postage. The first set were U Boat commanders Binos from WW@ the second set were sold in the early 1950's.

I would rate these as better then the newer ones for longevity and workmanship. How times and companies change.

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I often get a bit of a laugh when companies brag about their "LIFETIME WARRANTY".. as my thoughts are "What the hell is that warranty going to do for me when I am in a Toyota in Zimbabwe??"

My experience has been as you described above whenever I have sent anything back to Leupold.. had sent a set of 4 back to get them upgraded to dials for dialing up elevation with the custom turrets.. had all 4 back in less than a month.. at a reasonably low cost..in my experience they have the best customer service of any carrier I have dealt with..

I have also had really good customer service with Swarovski -- on the 2 times I have needed to do so..

There are some optics out there that are just plain junk, IMHO...Speaking of which, I read Nikon is no longer making rifle scopes... NOT implying all were junk.. but have never cared for them either..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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When guiding moose hunters (yeah it's wet sometimes), I've seen Zeiss scopes fog up time and again, but never a Leupold.
Once fall, a German hunter has a Swarovski with a cracked front lens. It didn't fog.

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So the “Zeiss” stories recounted above are interesting indeed.

Curious: Were they top end premier lines or were they cheaper “made for the American market” price point scopes and binos that were dumped on an unwitting American buying public to bolster the corporate bottom line. Cheap and cheerful, and aimed at a frugal deal hungry buying public, but there is no free lunch. Shame on the purchaser with thin wallets and high expectations.

It makes me think of the significant marketing that goes into the Conquest line or the Z3 line...two different Euro brands making scope lines that won’t go head to head with a Leupold on any level except maybe price. The advertising is certainly there.... but they sure ain’t what I’d call Euro scopes in the spirit of which most refer to when they talk about high end Euro glass.

Don’t misunderstand me, I am certainly no apologist for any manufacturer. Just trying to understand what happened in these cases. I’ve been caught out buying shit that leveraged the good name of what is thought to be high end, so it makes me curious what was actually sold by Zeiss.... Diavari or lesser lines?

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When guiding moose hunters (yeah it's wet sometimes), I've seen Zeiss scopes fog up time and again, but never a Leupold.
Once fall, a German hunter has a Swarovski with a cracked front lens. It didn't fog.

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Daryl I wonder if those Zeiss were the Top end or lower end of the Zeiss range.

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No idea. However, I was quite shocked at the fogging. I had a "cheap little" 21mm tube Leupold 2X on the .458. It did not fog nor did 2 other Leuy 3-9's & an old 2-7 in camp.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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When guiding moose hunters (yeah it's wet sometimes), I've seen Zeiss scopes fog up time and again, but never a Leupold.
Once fall, a German hunter has a Swarovski with a cracked front lens. It didn't fog.

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Daryl I wonder if those Zeiss were the Top end or lower end of the Zeiss range.

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No idea. However, I was quite shocked at the fogging. I had a "cheap little" 21mm tube Leupold 2X on the .458. It did not fog nor did 2 other Leuy 3-9's & an old 2-7 in camp.

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I still have one of those 2-7 Leupolds.. have had it 30+ years now.. great little scope..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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