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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: ORION]
      #37486 - 14/09/05 10:51 PM

Well, OK, AR2209 is not a bad powder for the 6.5 MS, I use it myself. I was a little flabbergasted at your earlier load, ie 44gr AR2213 SC in the little carbine, with only sub-18inch barrel. Reckon it must look like a flame-thrower when fired!!

I've got no beef with you personally, Orion, but it seemed earlier that you were expressing some disdain for the use of large-bores on buff, when IYHO a .270 or the little 6.5 would confidently "do the job". While I'm prepared to concede that there is some truth to your words "its not with what you hit them, ..its more important where you hit", you can't always pick the shot you would like!

Most of the big-bores employed by responsible buff-hunters will reach the vitals from any angle, something the 6.5 cannot be expected to do!

This post is still a little more confrontational than I would have liked, and for that I apologize, however I do feel the need to respond to the inference that big-bores for buffalo are entirely unnecessary. Inexperienced hunters perusing this forum might very well accept that as the truth, whereas the whole point of this thread from my very first post was to point out that that is simply not the case!

Everyone who has hunted big bulls knows that anyway, and I suspect you do to, mate. Next time you're in Darwin, drop over for a shiraz, seems like we'd have plenty to talk about. Always keen to meet fellow devotees of the Mannlicher Schoenauer, finest bolt-rifle ever made!


O&BTW, we've all had plenty of one-shot kills, if you don't count those other shots that had no affect!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Edited by Marrakai (15/09/05 11:09 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39889
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: Marrakai]
      #37489 - 14/09/05 11:20 PM

Marrakai

I will see if I can get a few of Orion's photos up tommorrow (if I am lucky). The story behind the "rear end shots" is not what you think. Orion can explain in his own words the story.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Bakes
.375 member


Reged: 31/01/03
Posts: 589
Loc: QLD
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: NitroX]
      #37492 - 14/09/05 11:53 PM

I just want more of that Speck.....the blokes at work cleaned me out

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: Bakes]
      #37520 - 15/09/05 11:13 AM

OK guys, I have amended my post, and will wait for Orion's accounts.

BTW, what happened to dinner at the Sailing Club, John? I did manage to catch up with Graham Williams, fed him some cajun goose and shiraz on the banks of my 'home billabong' on the Friday evening. Interesting guy.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39889
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: Marrakai]
      #37533 - 15/09/05 01:05 PM

Marakai

I sent you two messages saying the dinner wouldn't be happening. No one except for Graham, Orion and I would be making it (we were together for eight dinners immediately prior anyway), plus yourself later. Everyone else was either working, in the bush or off overseas.

Orion and I went straight to the pig hunting property and never went near Darwin.

Pity it didn't happen. Especially the cajun goose! Glad GW and you caughtup though.


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ORION
.275 member


Reged: 25/01/03
Posts: 58
Loc: SSouth Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: NitroX]
      #37548 - 15/09/05 08:30 PM

Bakes

Maybe sooner then you think

Waidmanns heil

ORION

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ORION
.275 member


Reged: 25/01/03
Posts: 58
Loc: SSouth Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: Marrakai]
      #37553 - 15/09/05 10:19 PM

Hi Marrakai

Thank you for the invitation
meby sooner then you think

Waidmannsheil

ORION

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: ORION]
      #38280 - 27/09/05 08:55 PM


Orion

Where are the stories ?

Also, what do you mean by
"both buffalo died with 2 chest shots".
and
"Buffalo no 1 two rear end shots no affect."

What were you shooting it with, a .22 rimfire ?

500 Nitro

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38282 - 27/09/05 11:28 PM

I'm gunna stay out of this one.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39889
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38283 - 27/09/05 11:30 PM

I had a problem with IPAQ and all of Orion's photos. He is posting me a CD of them.

The comment about a .22 rimfire is foolish.

500Nitro

BTW I know you have been to the NT a few times, but next to no photos to date yourself.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38290 - 28/09/05 02:01 AM

.500Nitro - what bullet do you suggest for my blown '06 case in .375 for heavy/dangerous game?
: Right now, with H4895 Extreme powder, I'm running 2,470fps with 300gr.Hornady Interlocks and 2,500fps with 285gr. Speer Grand Slams.
: I'd expect it should run 2,250fps to 2,300fps with 320 to 340gr.
: Barnes "X" 270gr. & 300's are avaiable here and I have a throating reamer if I changed to them.
; Presently, my 285's and 300's both shot into the same 1" group at 100 meters.
: I'd like to pick a single bullet for "All Round" shooting - Whitetail and Mule Deer, Moose, Elk, Black Bear and one must be prepared for Grizzlys coming in to the dinner bell. (rifle shots now bring them in at a run).

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: DarylS]
      #38305 - 28/09/05 04:25 AM

NitroX,
If people don't want things questioned, then don't post it.
You have got to be able to back up what you say with facts.

After re reading the whole post from the top of Page 2
I don't think my comment was foolish - just after all the
discussion on 6.5's and the suitability to handle Big Bull
Buffalo in ALL Situations, I think it was a valid question.
I should have put 6.5 instead of .22 but Marakai's post
at the top of page 2 - his questions are still valid IMHO.

As to photos - my choice.

Daryl_S
Plenty of US posters here can help who's opinion I value
greatly - suggest start a new post ?
Anyway, how "tough" are Bears to knock down since I haven't
shot one (OR done much reading / research).
I don't like Barnes X and of course would recommend Woodleigh
but don't have a big problem with other Good, Well constructed
game bullets (ie NOT Hornady).
Personally where range is not long I like a Heavy for calibre, RN bullet
at normal velocity - they penetrate well, I believe RN's hit harder and
the exposed lead makes the open up and give a good punch.
350gn Woodleighs hit like freight trains and penetrate a long way.

What's wrong with what you are using ?

PM me if you like or start a new thread.

500 Nitro






Edited by 500Nitro (28/09/05 09:52 PM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38321 - 28/09/05 08:43 AM

new thread in Big Bores - thanks

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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ORION
.275 member


Reged: 25/01/03
Posts: 58
Loc: SSouth Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: DarylS]
      #38664 - 03/10/05 09:31 PM

500 NITRO

shot 2 bears in ALASKA 150 gr. .27o

WAIhei
ORION

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: ORION]
      #38671 - 03/10/05 11:09 PM


Orion,

What's the point of your post ?

500 Nitro

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39889
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: 500Nitro]
      #38742 - 05/10/05 12:56 AM

In reply to:

NitroX,
If people don't want things questioned, then don't post it.
You have got to be able to back up what you say with facts.



I'm just telling a Top End hunting story for enjoyment and so others can share that enjoyment just a little too.

The argument on the suitability of a 6.5mm for buffalo really isn't a big concern of mine and as to a "discussion on 6.5's and the suitability to handle Big Bull Buffalo in ALL Situations", that argument is absolutely of no interest to me at all. I think that argument, emphasis on the newly introduced word "ALL" is quite foolish.

On this thread at least I do not believe I have ever advocated using a 6.5mm on buffalo, so I really don't need to "back anything" up. Orion is the medium calibre man and my attitude has always been it is his choice. We may not be completely in agreement at all but it is his choice and the results were as suspected.

In reply to:

As to photos - my choice.



Quite sad that you do not find it possible to share them for others enjoyment as well as your ow.


I have a couple parcels at the post office. With luck one is the Photo CD and the other is several hundred Woodleigh .450's, .375's, and 9.3mm projectiles.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: NitroX]
      #38758 - 05/10/05 10:53 AM

I think that most all of us are in agreeance that the 6.5 calibre is not a suitable round for shooting buffalo(aussie)
It has been done with smaller calibres including .22 rimfire.
However ROBERT RUARK said it all:-
"USE ENOUGH GUN."

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39889
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #38766 - 05/10/05 01:18 PM

Did I use the word "suitable'?

Why do people keep trying to play "word games" as in 'ALL',

My attitude is let anyone use what THEY as a client want and what their professional outfitter considers reasonable. In those cases whatever is agreed is 'suitable'. It is the client's money and the client's hunt, successful or otherwise.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: NitroX]
      #38769 - 05/10/05 05:02 PM


1.
"The argument on the suitability of a 6.5mm for buffalo really isn't a big concern of mine and as to a
"discussion on 6.5's and the suitability to handle Big Bull Buffalo in ALL Situations", that argument is
absolutely of no interest to me at all. I think that argument, emphasis on the newly introduced word
"ALL" is quite foolish."

NitroX - IF you go hunting Buffalo with a gun, then IMHO it should be able to handle
a "Big Bull Buffalo in ALL Situations"

It is out responsibility as ethical hunters to make sure game is killed quickly, cleanly and
with as little chance of getting away wounded as possible. I am afraid that hunting
buffalo with a 6.5 does not ensure this. "With as little chance of getting away
wounded as possible" mean having a calibre sufficient to stop a Buffalo charge
or from running away by not only being able to penetrate the full length of the
body but do enough damage to stop it from going further. ie Without Back up

2.
"On this thread at least I do not believe I have ever advocated using a 6.5mm on buffalo,
so I really don't need to "back anything" up."

Your post on Re: Is a 6.5x54mm adequate for Water Buffalo?
dated 08/12/04 10:19 PM
"I am sure my friend can use a 6.5x54mm adequately on buffalo given the right placement opportunity."

"We may not be completely in agreement at all but it is his choice and the results were as suspected."

and the results were as suspected

Are you telling me that Orion shot 2 Buffalo without a problem ?

I will await the story and photos.

500 Nitro

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: NitroX]
      #38770 - 05/10/05 08:42 PM

No John,I used the word suitable and I stand by that comment ,hoping that it would put an end to this debate.
It was NOT directed at you or anyone else.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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ORION
.275 member


Reged: 25/01/03
Posts: 58
Loc: SSouth Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #38835 - 07/10/05 08:11 AM

Hi Nitro500,
no,Im telling you.
2 Buffalo down no problem.
Its the skill of the hunter,not the gun!
I have watched some films in camp,from previous hunters,
from 375through 505 Gibbs.None went down with one shot.
All took more than two.
Im not surprised,most are talk and no action.
Practise makes the master.
Waihi
Orion

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Buffalo Head Shot [Re: ORION]
      #38859 - 07/10/05 03:59 PM

Orion,

Re "2 Buffalo down no problem.
Its the skill of the hunter,not the gun!"

As I said in my previous post,
I will await the story and photos.

re have watched some films in camp,from previous hunters,
from 375through 505 Gibbs.None went down with one shot.
All took more than two. I'm not surprised, most are talk and no action.

I don't go by the theaory of one shot kills. I shoot and keep shooting.
Having shot them with 375.9.3, 404, 500, 505 and probably a few others
I know what is a death shot is and what isn't but it doesn't stop them
from running.

500 Nitro

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