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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm
#328474 - 18/05/19 03:27 AM

I posed this question on another forum, and got a lot of inane comments; so I will see if I have better luck here. If you neck down a 8x57 Mauser to 7mm, with no other changes, what is the proper name of the cartridge? No, it's not the 7x57 Mauser, although it is still 57mm long. The new cartridge will have a shoulder length of 45.65 mm, vs. 43.25 mm for the 7mm Mauser. The shoulder diameter is larger as well at 11.04 vs. 10.92.

I calculate the case capacity will be 5% more than the 7mm Mauser, and about 10% more than the 7mm-08. If this has been done in the past, what did they call it. If it hasn't already been named, then I will call it the .275 Bandukwallah! Comments?

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2121
Loc: United States

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: Carpetsahib]
#328475 - 18/05/19 04:09 AM

Well you can shape any shell to anything other then a factory set of specks and it's a new "wild-cat". But rather then asking myself 'if I can', I usually ask "why should I?"

5%? (even if that were the case, which I can't see in my calculations)

How about a 280 Remington instead?
Or a 7X64?
Or for that matter, a 7X61 S&H
Or a 7MM Rem Mag?

All these cartridges will do better then 5% increases in capacity, and you'd not have to order a custom set of dies, and a custom chamber reamer, both of which will cost a lot more then factory spec dies or reamer---- and IF you could get a bit more powder in your wildcat than you could in the standard 7X57,, how could it be any better (or as good) as any of the shells I just named?

Yes you can do this, but why would you want to?

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: szihn]
#328476 - 18/05/19 05:06 AM

Quote:

Yes you can do this, but why would you want to?

Maybe for the same reason that I might want to have a custom rifle built instead of buying a factory offering.

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9038
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: Carpetsahib]
#328478 - 18/05/19 05:16 AM

Quote:

If you neck down a 8x57 Mauser to 7mm, with no other changes, what is the proper name of the cartridge?

the proper name would be - 7x57 Carpetsahip -

such things exist because the 7x57 MAUSER is such great cartridge

6,5x55 Swedish necked up 7x57 Finnish
7,5x54 Mas necked down 7x54 Fournier
7,62x54R Mosin necked down 7x53R Sako

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (18/05/19 05:26 AM)

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Viking338
.333 member

Reged: 11/08/11
Posts: 480
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: lancaster]
#328485 - 18/05/19 09:06 AM

Yes agree with lancaster, it should be the 7x57 Carpetsahib. But you could just call it the 7x57 Improved due to its slightly better capacity

Don’t know really, the same dimensions have probably been created somewhere in this big old world sometime in the past and been called many things! Maybe even just a “pain in the arse”

Steve

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1650
Loc: Finland

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: Viking338]
#328546 - 20/05/19 02:00 AM

Quote:

6,5x55 Swedish necked up 7x57 Finnish

You probably mean 7x54 ?

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9038
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: Igorrock]
#328557 - 20/05/19 03:39 AM

you got me

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Homer
.416 member

Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: lancaster]
#328716 - 23/05/19 08:38 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Carpetsahib, I'm not sure if this is the reply you are looking for but I gave up on most Wildcats, years ago.
By the time you get the expensive reloading dies for this cartridge, making cartridges, and then messing around with working out loads, etc, you kinda grow bored with the idea (well, I did).

If you just want to have something thats different, get a custom stock made and fitted to a conventional barreled action, and go Hunting or Shooting.

Hope that helps

Regards
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: Homer]
#328719 - 23/05/19 09:36 AM

Now- a REALLY interesting ctg. is the 8mm Mauser necked down to .308. Mine did 2,670fps with 190gr. Hornady SP's.
I was happy with that.
My buddy Keith needed it for his Brother, sooooooo - zoom, there it went. Good little round.
I called the .30 SS. (Sapergia Short)

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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fuhrmann
.333 member

Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: DarylS]
#328765 - 24/05/19 06:06 AM

I assume there was some reason to set back the shoulder a little bit in the 7x57.
Maybe to prevent accidental chambering of an 8x57 J cartridge? Or a 7,65 Argentinian cartridge?

Such an 8x57 /.308 zwitter was discussed intently in a German forum some months ago:
https://forum.wildundhund.de/threads/7-62-xxx-idee-meinungen.112386/

Certainly this works and may be fun, but the actual need and sense (except creating your own wildcat) escapes me.

fuhrmann

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: fuhrmann]
#328787 - 25/05/19 12:41 AM

Interesting - although I cannot read it. I made mine up in about 1992 or so. The 1st thing I shot was a quite large black bear at the jail on night shift. The "shot" presented itself at about 2AM and with the illumination of the guard tower's big spot-light, it became pit-lamping at it's best.
That was at at time the bears were giving the night shift prowl officers a bit of trouble.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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fuhrmann
.333 member

Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: DarylS]
#328881 - 27/05/19 05:09 PM

Daryl
I Havent´t read the whole long thread.
The plan was to neck down 8x57IS to .308, blow out case wall and shoulder and run it at max. pressure of 4400 bar.
The idea was to exceed .30-06 and approach .300 WSM ballistics.
Can´t tell you if that was actually achieved as I was not interested enough to follow the lengthy discussion.
fuhrmann

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: fuhrmann]
#328883 - 27/05/19 07:33 PM

8x57IMP should come close to 2,900fps with a 180gr., however 2,950fps might not be possible with less than 26"bl. & running top pressures of 65,000psi. Just guessing.
My buddy is getting 3,020fps with 180's in his WSM Winchester, with Horn. Interlocks.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39896
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: fuhrmann]
#328885 - 27/05/19 07:59 PM

Quote:

I assume there was some reason to set back the shoulder a little bit in the 7x57.
Maybe to prevent accidental chambering of an 8x57 J cartridge? Or a 7,65 Argentinian cartridge?

Such an 8x57 /.308 zwitter was discussed intently in a German forum some months ago:
https://forum.wildundhund.de/threads/7-62-xxx-idee-meinungen.112386/

Certainly this works and may be fun, but the actual need and sense (except creating your own wildcat) escapes me.

fuhrmann

https://translate.google.com/translate?s...ungen.112386%2F

Interestingly Google does this automatically for me now.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Dogfish858
.300 member

Reged: 08/08/15
Posts: 190
Loc: Western Canada

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: NitroX]
#329032 - 01/06/19 06:22 AM

The official design seems like an effort to maintain the .5 mm shoulder and neck radius.

--------------------
But what about you? he asked. Who do you say I am?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: Dogfish858]
#329036 - 01/06/19 08:47 AM

My guesses were very close. tks for the translation, John.

figures rounded up/down
150gr. 3,081fps
180gr. 2,901fps
200gr. 2,687fps
220gr. 2,579fps

The ballistics I achieved were slightly under these figures, but I did not want to push it too far, not having pressure equipment.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: fuhrmann]
#329037 - 01/06/19 08:50 AM

4,400bar is 63,817psi. That is certainly within reason.

Your ballistics on an improved case with .454" shoulder and 40 degree or 35 degree shoulder should exceed these figures by 100fps, maybe more.

That would be a VERY efficient case.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1650
Loc: Finland

Re: 8x57 Mauser Necked Down to 7mm [Re: DarylS]
#329276 - 11/06/19 02:36 PM

When talking about 8x57/.308 I wouldn´t forget 7,5x55. It uses .308 bullets:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5%C3%9755mm_Swiss

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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