rigbymauser
.400 member
Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2030
Loc: Denmark
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Found this rifle last year here in Denmark. They are rare.
The bolt is Schönauer, the magazine is Mauser 98 and yet the schroud on the bolt is Mauser98 look-a-like inspired.
The caliber is 6,5x57. The scope is Zeiss Zielacht(x8) which is rare too.
There is a horn buttplate under the ventilated buttpad. Maybe I will get this rifle renovated. The Suhler Ein Hack mounts is a little lose and the scope may need a clean-up too. It looks clear when looking through the scope but the German #4 reticle posts may need to be cleaned.

Edited by rigbymauser (24/03/19 08:58 PM)
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rigbymauser
.400 member
Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 2030
Loc: Denmark
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When I try to post other pictures from Imgur no pictures will be shown at all??:.
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NitroX
.700 member
Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40702
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
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PM me the links.
-------------------- John aka NitroX
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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"
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kuduae
.400 member
Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1806
Loc: middle of Germany
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Quote:
The bolt is Schönauer, the magazine is Mauser 98 and yet the schroud on the bolt is Mauser98 look-a-like inspired. The caliber is 6,5x57. The scope is Zeiss Zielacht(x8) which is rare too.
These pre-WW1 Haenel rifles, models 1900 and 1909, are not copies of Mannlicher- Schoenauers, but independent parallel developments , both based on The original German M88 "commission" action. The bolt of both the Mannlicher –Schoenauers and the Haenels is not Schoenauer's, but Louis Schlegelmilch's. The magazine with it's intricate leverwork follower was patented by Haenel to avoid patent infringement on Mauser's W-spring design. Louis Schlegelmilch was the head gunsmith of the Prussian Spandau arsenal. He designed the turn bolt action now usually associated with "Mannlicher". The Steyr factory got an order for several hundred thousand M88 military rifles for the German armies and was allowed to use Schlegelmilch's turning bolt for their own export rifles. As the production capacity of the German government arsenals was insufficient, not only Steyr, but Ludwig Loewe, later DWM, Berlin and the Suhl factories of C.G. Haenel and V.C. Schilling got substantial orders for the new M88 commission rifles and carbines too. After 1895 the Mauser stripper clip loading, flush magazine became popular. The protuding Mannlicher magazine with it's dirt catching opening was not competitive any more for any new military rifle. Steyr could not use Mauser's staggered magazine, then state of the art, for patent reasons. Their director Otto Schoenauer designed his own rotary magazine, stripper clip loading too, and fitted it to the basic Schlegelmilch turnbolt action instead of Mannlicher's magazine. So the famous "Mannlicher – Schoenauer" was born. After 1898 Haenel, Suhl, faced a similar problem. They too were set up to make the obsolescent M88 action with Schlegelmilch's bolt and the now obsolescent Mannlicher magazine. They still exported M88 action military rifles to many corners of the world and made sporting rifles in several grades, but foresaw the demise of Mannlicher's magazine. So Haenel too tried to upgrade their turnbolt rifles to make them competitive again. Like the Steyr factory they added their own, patented flush, stripper clip loading magazine to the basic Schlegelmilch action, added a gas flange, a new ejector and the two –piece "safety" firing pin. So both the "Mannlicher – Schoenauers" and the Haenels M1900 and 1909 are in fact parallel developments. None retains any Mannlicher design feature
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kuduae
.400 member
Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1806
Loc: middle of Germany
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This rifle is a Haenel Model 1909, grade St.P.Nr.6. A page from the contemporary Haenel catalog and a translation of the description:
 Action and magazine of the cliploader system Haenel Model 1909 for carbines and hunting rifles The lockwork cocks on opening. The firing pin is parted; it´s point is in the bolt head. Injury to the shooter, if in eventual de- and reassembly of the bolt putting back the bolt head is forgotten, is completely impossible. To cover the shooter from gas eventually blown back in shooting, a gas shield is mounted between cocking piece and firing pin nut. The magazine holds 5 cartridges and may be loaded from top with an open bolt by stripper clip or without one; and just as easily it may be filled or replenished with single cartridges from the bottom, magazine cover open. The magazine cover is opened by pressure on a side-mounted pushbutton; the magazine may then be emptied by a single movement from below. St.P.Nr.6 : Stripperclip loading hunting rifle Haenel system, Model 1909. Bolt with gas shield, bent bolt handle with pear shaped knob; Barrel Krupp´s cast steel, round; with bead foresight on short, matted base, standing rear sight with one small folding leaf, and double set trigger, better stock wood and better finish; halfstock with cheekpiece and checkered pistolgrip.
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lancaster
.470 member
Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9534
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
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wait I can help







-------------------- Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians
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lancaster
.470 member
Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9534
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
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Quote:
These pre-WW1 Haenel rifles, models 1900 and 1909, are not copies of Mannlicher- Schoenauers, but independent parallel developments , both based on The original German M88 "commission" action.
and they came out in the same time:
Manlicher Schönauer M 1900
and
Haenel M 1900
clear timeframe - 1898 the Modell 98 come to light - every other bolt action is obsolete Steyr and Haenel scratching heads and start to develope an action that can compete
btw. Axel , take a look what old C.G.Haenel documents are in the Thüringen Landesarchiv - state archive http://www.archive-in-thueringen.de/de/findbuch/view/bestand/23622/systematik/51225
time to send someone there
wonder if we know everything about the haenel now, caliber were 6,5x57, 7x57, 8x57, 9x57 and 10,75x68
-------------------- Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians
Edited by lancaster (25/03/19 04:42 AM)
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lancaster
.470 member
Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9534
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
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Jens before sending you a mail about overhaul the zielacht. I have a excellent scope specialist here but there is another good man in Denmark too. don't have his name but can get it. everything fine if the old horn butt plate is under the rubber plate. probably the stock was lengthened with the rubber plate once.
-------------------- Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians
Edited by lancaster (25/03/19 04:39 AM)
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Rothhammer1
.400 member
Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1866
Loc: The Redwoods of California
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Quote:
These pre-WW1 Haenel rifles, models 1900 and 1909, are not copies of Mannlicher- Schoenauers, but independent parallel developments , both based on The original German M88 "commission" action. The bolt of both the Mannlicher –Schoenauers and the Haenels is not Schoenauer's, but Louis Schlegelmilch's. The magazine with it's intricate leverwork follower was patented by Haenel to avoid patent infringement on Mauser's W-spring design. Louis Schlegelmilch was the head gunsmith of the Prussian Spandau arsenal. He designed the turn bolt action now usually associated with "Mannlicher". The Steyr factory got an order for several hundred thousand M88 military rifles for the German armies and was allowed to use Schlegelmilch's turning bolt for their own export rifles. As the production capacity of the German government arsenals was insufficient, not only Steyr, but Ludwig Loewe, later DWM, Berlin and the Suhl factories of C.G. Haenel and V.C. Schilling got substantial orders for the new M88 commission rifles and carbines too. After 1895 the Mauser stripper clip loading, flush magazine became popular. The protuding Mannlicher magazine with it's dirt catching opening was not competitive any more for any new military rifle. Steyr could not use Mauser's staggered magazine, then state of the art, for patent reasons. Their director Otto Schoenauer designed his own rotary magazine, stripper clip loading too, and fitted it to the basic Schlegelmilch turnbolt action instead of Mannlicher's magazine. So the famous "Mannlicher – Schoenauer" was born. After 1898 Haenel, Suhl, faced a similar problem. They too were set up to make the obsolescent M88 action with Schlegelmilch's bolt and the now obsolescent Mannlicher magazine. They still exported M88 action military rifles to many corners of the world and made sporting rifles in several grades, but foresaw the demise of Mannlicher's magazine. So Haenel too tried to upgrade their turnbolt rifles to make them competitive again. Like the Steyr factory they added their own, patented flush, stripper clip loading magazine to the basic Schlegelmilch action, added a gas flange, a new ejector and the two –piece "safety" firing pin. So both the "Mannlicher – Schoenauers" and the Haenels M1900 and 1909 are in fact parallel developments. None retains any Mannlicher design feature
Excellent information!
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NitroX
.700 member
Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40702
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
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Interesting.
-------------------- John aka NitroX
...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"
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JDL
.333 member
Reged: 25/12/10
Posts: 260
Loc: Louisiana
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Most excellent Kuduae! So what we call Mannlicher-Schoenauer rifles should correctly be called Schlegelmilch-Schoenauers? Wow, that is a tongue twister for sure!
Edited by JDL (26/03/19 04:37 AM)
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Waidmannsheil
.416 member
Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2526
Loc: Melbourne Australia
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A very nice looking rifle in pretty good condition, hope you enjoy it.
Matt.
-------------------- There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.
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Carpetsahib
.333 member
Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC
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Does anyone have information regarding Schlegelmilch's 1896 rifle. I have only seen a Youtube video on the Forgotten Weapons channel concerning this rifle. The resemblance to Mauser's 1933 model is remarkable. Here is a link to the video: https://youtu.be/eA_luQyL9K4.
Edited by Carpetsahib (29/03/19 05:15 AM)
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