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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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NitroX
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
#324168 - 02/02/19 08:05 PM

The main reason one does not see the .30/30 in Africa is probably because safaris are so expensive, why would one take such a less than ideal choice of firearm, unless one is wealthy and has a dozen safaris already under one's belt ...

A .308 Winchester or .30-06 will do everything better than a .30/30.

Having said that, some clients, who have had the experience of many safaris do sometimes take "niche" choices such as Marlin .45/70's etc etc.

Lever actions were seen in Africa, in the hands of Roosevelt, the Johnson's and probably other Americans. Mentioned in the fictional book(s) "King Solomon's Mines". Probably a good fast shooting, "large" capacity magazine choice for short range shooting when unruly savages and cannibals were a proble ... the assault rifle of the day!

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Sarg]
#324170 - 02/02/19 09:16 PM

As Sarg say's it is the bullet(Construction) and shot placement. I can believe some of those who claim to have hit an elk 3 times in the lung and lost it. That is if using a projectile that is too hard and pencils through. Have seen this with Sambar deer-Indian elk- 30 odd blokes and dogs looking for one shot through both lungs from 5 meters with a 30-06. 220grain pill that was too hard. Some bone and bright red bubbly blood found. Deer put up 2 hrs later and bloke didn't take a shot, never found it after that. It may have traveled several miles and died or laid in mud closed the holes and lived. They have been known to do this. I know of Sambar that have been taken with a 30-30 but it would not be my choice for Elk.

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9.3x57
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: NitroX]
#324174 - 03/02/19 12:41 AM

Nitro, I think you summed it up well.

Regarding the following...

Quote:

Lever actions were seen in Africa, in the hands of Roosevelt, the Johnson's and probably other Americans. Mentioned in the fictional book(s) "King Solomon's Mines". Probably a good fast shooting, "large" capacity magazine choice for short range shooting when unruly savages and cannibals were a problem... the assault rifle of the day!

When I was in South Africa in 88 and 89 I know the regular Marlin 336 CS model was discussed locally and somewhat in demand, tho I don't think many made it over there. Some did and I saw them for sale. The advantages of the type were that one didn't need a special license for it like one did for semiauto's and if a guy wasn't in the Citizen Force but wanted a handy and relatively light and handy rifle for self protection such a rifle then as always made a pretty good idea.

Sliding off-topic, here...in truth, a .44 Magnum levergun has all of those qualities for short range and more bullets to-boot, now as in the late 19th century when a variety of tube mag-fed lever and pump .38-40's and .44-40's were common as dirt and then as now the ammo for the longarm was right at home in the side-arm, too. The .38-40 was the "10 mm" of its day as it still is today!

This not to mention some of the smaller calibers in levershuckers.

Let's remember Bell, when trekking and not actually hunting, often carried Bom-Bom, his little Mauser 96 in 9mm Export caliber. Very smart guy that Bell. And he'd have been as or even better equipped with a handy "high capacity" tube-fed levergun as well.

Heck, isn't it the case that Winchester M92 .44-40's were once upon a time popular in Oz???

Truth is, the pistol-cartridge levergun is a tremendously handy weapon and maybe the most naturally-pointing of all guns ever made?

And if it's a Winchester 94 Paratrooper® Model, it's even handier than that!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Ripp
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
#324181 - 03/02/19 04:13 AM

Good stuff..

I was thinking the same thing on revolver/rifle cartridges.. my choice might be the 460S&W..interchangable with 454 Casull and 45 Colt..would make for a handy combo..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Ripp]
#324183 - 03/02/19 05:11 AM

The .460 S&W is quite a round. I found a couple once fired cases at the range.
It would make a dandy ctg. for a light single shot like a Ruger #3.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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9.3x57
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: DarylS]
#324186 - 03/02/19 06:04 AM

Quote:

The .460 S&W is quite a round. I found a couple once fired cases at the range.
It would make a dandy ctg. for a light single shot like a Ruger #3.

That's for sure!

It's amazing how such short little rounds equal or better the performance of many of the much bigger BP rounds of the 1800's, too.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Rule303
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
#324195 - 03/02/19 08:12 AM

9.3 I like your paratrooper model.

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Sarg
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
#324196 - 03/02/19 08:15 AM

The 460 S&W is awesomely powerful but it has some thing to do with the 65,000 P.S.I to get that power, load up a 32/20 to 65,000 P.S.I & we would gain some power also lol !

Yes cool little lever gun, I have a Marlin 336 LTS (Little Texan Safety Carbine) 16in barrel, great to carry but man it blasts your ears off !

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DarylS
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: Sarg]
#324208 - 03/02/19 12:58 PM

|Years back when they first came out, I bought a Win. M94 Trapper in .45 Colt.
I had just found and read an article by Ross Seyfried about loading .45 Colt to .44 mag pressures. He had the help of Hornady's pressure equipment.
What it amounted to was 25.0gr. of W296 with a 300gr. bullet.
Ross was working with handguns while I was primarily interested in the rifle.
The rear of the chamber was scooped out like a 1911 Colt for a feed ramp, so this was the weak spot on this particular rifle. Ross noted Fed brass was the strongest, but I found RP to be considerably stronger yet, so that's what I used.

With sized down .300gr. Hp's (I hollow pointed one cavity in my RCBS mould), lubed in a .459" Lyman die then sized them down in a .452" Lyman or RCBS die in an RCBS Lubsizer.

Worked up to the 25.0gr. and they chronographed 1,584fps, which matched exactly, what the BP .45/90 Winchester gave out of the model 95 single shot.

I shot 2 elk with that load, worked a charm.

After that, I went heavier and with different powder, developed to the same case expansion I got with the .44 mag. pressure loads and in only the RP brass. They NEVER gave a pregnant appearance, however the Fed brass did, as well as the much weaker Win. brass.
Those loads, with Winchester 630 powder, drove 340gr. bullets to 1,774fps, matching I think, the .450 #2. buddy of mine wanted it for his wife, so I sold it to him, cheap, as always.
All THAT from a .45 Colt in a 16" bl. Go figure.

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NitroX
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: DarylS]
#324585 - 12/02/19 06:35 AM

While I would love a good condition old vintage lever action, perhaps in .44/40, I do like the idea of a lever action and revolver combination shooting the same round. In my case the .357 Magnum would probably be the choice. Plenty of handguns to choose from, but how many good lever action rifles?

What the .357 rifle would be good for, is the second question?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
#324586 - 12/02/19 06:38 AM

Quote:

Heck, isn't it the case that Winchester M92 .44-40's were once upon a time popular in Oz???

Yes the Winchester 92 was once popular in Australia, especially among outback cattlemen and cowboys, in the outback to the Top End.

The Win 92's in .44/40 were also used to shoot water buffalo for the hide trade. But the shooting was done from the back of a horse, which could run away if needed.

In gun auctions there are often a fair number of Win 92's with half or full magazines listed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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CarlsenHighway
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Reged: 19/03/09
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: 9.3x57]
#327573 - 22/04/19 01:55 PM

Back before WW1, Charles Cottar used a Winchester in .32 Special on everything except elephant. He recommended it for lions.
Later in life, he was trampled to death by a rhino.

Make of this what you will.

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rigbymauser
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: CarlsenHighway]
#327578 - 22/04/19 03:27 PM

Quote:

Back before WW1, Charles Cottar used a Winchester in .32 Special on everything except elephant. He recommended it for lions.
Later in life, he was trampled to death by a rhino.

Make of this what you will.

I guess everybodys luck will run out sometime. I think I read Charles was run over when filming a charge.

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DarylS
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Re: .30-30 in Africa.. [Re: rigbymauser]
#327594 - 23/04/19 04:10 AM

A 16" to 20" bl. in .357 Mag would be a good platform for descent loads using the 180gr. Speer FP's for smaller deer, hogs and goats.
I would prefer a .44 Mag., or .45 Colt chambering, though.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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