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Story
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How Did CZ-USA Rifles end up with African Poachers?
      #322795 - 27/12/18 04:29 AM

HOEDSPRUIT, South Africa — High-powered hunting rifles are the tools of the trade for poachers in South Africa and Mozambique. Steady and deadly accurate, the rifles are capable of dropping a rhinoceros with one shot from long distances, and are a major reason the rhinos in those African countries, highly valued for their horns, are dwindling toward extinction.

Three years ago, Sandy McDonald began finding the rifles, left behind by poachers, scattered near the dead rhinos he found in the game reserve he owns in Mozambique, just across the border from South Africa.

Mr. McDonald immediately recognized the weapons. They were .375-caliber Safari Classics, made by CZUB or just CZ, a firearms manufacturer based in the Czech Republic. Upon closer inspection, Mr. McDonald noticed something else on the rifles. Carved into the metal were the words “CZ-USA, Kansas City, KS,” suggesting that the weapons were from the American subsidiary of the arms company.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/25/us/politics/rhinos-poachers-south-africa-czub.html

Edited by Story (27/12/18 04:30 AM)

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Rule303
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Re: How Did CZ-USA Rifles end up with African Poachers? [Re: Story]
      #322811 - 27/12/18 06:58 PM

Well sales to Mozambique firearms trade will have some dubious end users and any clear thinking person would know that. CZ and CZ-USA should have a clause in their sales agreement that offers some protection. Yes that would be Nye on useless but would offer the company some protection.

Trying to hide something like this only points to guilt.

Now having said that I do have some reservations. A UN anti gun person is leading/pointing the way/supplying evidence to Govt Agencies. I smell a big rat right there and question the validity of her research.

Last I knew AK47's were the weapon of choice for the poacher. Cheap, readily available as is the ammo. A magazine on auto from under 50mts will devastate a Elephant and Rhino.

The CZ's would be hellishly expensive as would the ammo. So if the poachers had them I doubt they would abandon them easily unless they had used up their ammo and could not afford/acquire more. This may happen if the Asians are supplying the rifles and ammo. If this is the case why are they looking at the manufacturer and not those who bought them from the stores in Moz. Those buyers would lead the investigators back to their bosses. Take them out of the equations and way few Rhinos are going to be poached. Or are the UN and the others high level plays involved in protecting the Rhino's not wanting to upset China?

Maybe I am too cynical.

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Sarg
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Re: How Did CZ-USA Rifles end up with African Poachers? [Re: Rule303]
      #322814 - 27/12/18 09:40 PM

I work in South Africa & do Rhino Poacher patrols with the Stock Squad & Armed Response Teams, we have caught several Poachers (one of them a Policemen) all the rifles we find are with or very near the guy we catch (hidden down Warthog holes) never dumped near a carcass, all have sound moderators, a lot of .303 7X57 8X57, lately more .375 & .458, no CZ as yet Zastava (read cheap) & older Mauser Sporters , but I hear the Big Backers (read Asian) are supplying big rifles set up ready to go to the Poacher units, there maybe a AK or two in the unit but they are for use against the Response Teams !

I will ask the head guy if any CZ-USA rifles have been recovered, I very much doubt it, CZ maybe as very popular Big Bore rifles in SA !

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: How Did CZ-USA Rifles end up with African Poachers? [Re: Sarg]
      #322822 - 28/12/18 05:16 AM

Dumped expensive rifles left near a carcase reads like bullshit to me. An agenda of some sort going on here.

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Rule303
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Re: How Did CZ-USA Rifles end up with African Poachers? [Re: NitroX]
      #322839 - 28/12/18 05:17 PM

Quote:

Dumped expensive rifles left near a carcase reads like bullshit to me. An agenda of some sort going on here.



This is what I suspect is the case. If this becomes big news I can see our F***tard government banning the taking of CZ big bores to Africa.

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Huvius
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Re: How Did CZ-USA Rifles end up with African Poachers? [Re: Rule303]
      #322840 - 28/12/18 06:13 PM

You never hear much on the topic, but how many rifles are “lost” in transit or stolen while in Africa?
Must be some one would think.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: How Did CZ-USA Rifles end up with African Poachers? [Re: Huvius]
      #322841 - 28/12/18 06:57 PM

If the rifles were dumped because the poachers were on the run it makes sense. Otherwise it does not.

All sorts of firearms could be used, from $100 AKs to stolen or even purchaed modern bolt actions.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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500Boswell
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Re: How Did CZ-USA Rifles end up with African Poachers? [Re: NitroX]
      #322843 - 28/12/18 07:45 PM

Just a ''set up'' ,ideally to make Sport hunters look bad ,trying to frame them as being responsible in some way for poaching .Unless in some huge coincidence they were stolen from legitimate hunters which I doubt ,it was said years ago in some parts of Africa you could buy an AK47 for 2 chickens. Green groups will do Anything to push their Agenda ,like in Australia paying off roo shooters to do inhumane Acts on Camera for them to publicize and put a stop to Kangeroo shooting

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9.3x57
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Re: How Did CZ-USA Rifles end up with African Poachers? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #322844 - 29/12/18 01:31 AM

Much interesting discussion here.

The "agenda conspiracy" suggestions can't be rejected on the face, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to suggest also that these guns have been provided by cartels and were not purposefully left behind but rather left due to haste.

Let's not forget that these guns are not very expensive in the USA. Exactly how they might get to SA is not known, but I have an idea or two. Let's not forget that funding for poaching operations in Sub-saharan Africa has been linked to various relatively high ranking members of government. Alas, I seem to remember the '77 ban on hunting in Kenya prepared the way for government corruption of all sorts with officials' involvement in extensive poaching there.

Many possibles exist, but I don't see much trouble with even the comparatively "complicated" acquisition of the guns by some with diplomatic immunity in the USA and shipment to SA. We are after all talking about a bunch of Communists running the show in SA these days!

I'm not certain when the CZ/USA stamp goes on the gun, but seems to me local purchase in SA by diversion of guns meant for the US market is possible. Indeed, we see legitimate examples of "European" models of guns that pop up in the USA from time to time.

Anyway, we won't know till we know, but in the meantime, lots of grist for creative ideas...

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