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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive
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Charles_Helm
.333 member


Reged: 09/11/05
Posts: 337
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Loose Butt Stock
      #322641 - 20/12/18 02:39 PM

So, back again for more knowledge. The butt stock on the Lee Speed Sporter I acquired is a bit loose. Is this tightened by going through the pistol grip or in some other way?

Thanks in advance.

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An Elephant Story

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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: Charles_Helm]
      #322643 - 20/12/18 03:18 PM

Hi, if it is original butt, there should be a steel butt plate on there with a small trap door, if you open that the stock bolt should be accessible, some times there is a leather washer in there that buggers you up, so shine a flash light down there to see, you need a big long handled screw driver or slotted end on a socket wrench to tighten .

Now this is Ok if it is a early Speeder on the MLM-MLE action, if it is on the later SMLE MKIII action there is a steel insert in the fore end wood so you must take the fore wood off BEFORE trying to tighten or you could crack the fore wood !

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Charles_Helm
.333 member


Reged: 09/11/05
Posts: 337
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: Sarg]
      #322671 - 21/12/18 02:30 PM

Thanks! This one does not have the thumb safety so i think it is an older one....but clearly I am no expert! It does have the butt plate with trap door.

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story

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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: Charles_Helm]
      #322672 - 21/12/18 03:19 PM

That's cool, but all of them could have any safety, none (half cock only), bolt (thumb) or shot gun type (also thumb) not even the charger bridge is a indicator of age, as they were fitted to some of the MLE actions, the trigger pull might as the early MLM/MLE had a single stage pull SMLE's had two stage, maybe just screw the front wood off, if that's not too much trouble ?

Im thinking it will be Ok to tighten as is most likely the early action but hate to split the wood .

Just thought id add some pic's of both types of Butt bolt & fore end .


SMLE


Bolt of SMLE



MLM-MLE most BSA Sporters/Lee Speeds


Bolt



Edited by Sarg (21/12/18 03:53 PM)

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: Sarg]
      #322673 - 21/12/18 04:15 PM

Good job, Sarge.

Also, the stock bolt is regular ole hardware store 7/16" diameter. I forget the length. I used to have a mess of Enfields and made a few stock bolts for spares. I used hex head bolts and simply cut a wide slot with hacksaw and files to fit a big flat screwdriver. I then made a stock bolt screw driver by taking a heavy slotted screw driver, removing the handle and replacing it with a long piece of hardwood broom handle. I locked up the barreled action in my gun vise and then I could get two hands on the screw driver and really put heck and how are ya on the bolt. The broom handle fit the stock bolt hole in the buttstock pretty closely so it was easypeasy to slide the driver in and spin it till the blade dropped into the bolt head slot.

I epoxy bedded some buttstocks that were poorly fitted in the first place, usually Brit GI spares as well as some new ones that just didn't ft quite right. It works well and is easy to do.

Back in the mid '90's you could darn near buy Lee-Enfields cheaper than you could get tomato stakes, and forestocks and butts in brand new, unused condition were dirt cheap, too. Gone are those days.

OP:

Your buttstock might not tighten up laterally 100% pretty much no matter how hard you reef on them. It is possible it might still twist a bit. A judicious application of epoxy bedding will fix that up.

Just don't forget the release agent.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Charles_Helm
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Reged: 09/11/05
Posts: 337
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322681 - 22/12/18 02:57 AM

Many thanks gentlemen!

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: Charles_Helm]
      #322682 - 22/12/18 03:18 AM

Dug around in the shop and found a stock bolt and here's the driver, too. If you are going to mess much with Lee's a purpose-built screwdriver is pretty handy to have around.

By the way, IIRC, stocks vary in what length of bolt they will take. I seem to remember the shoulder on some stocks was at somewhat different depth than others. I can't remember if a standard bolt WOULDN'T work, but do seem to remember that different lengths of bolts WOULD work, if that makes sense.









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What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (22/12/18 03:22 AM)

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englishman_ca
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Reged: 05/08/17
Posts: 31
Loc: Almaguin, Ontario, Canada
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: 9.3x57]
      #322734 - 24/12/18 06:14 AM

Until you know for sure if there is a bolt detent for the stock bolt in the fore stock, it is cheap insurance to just remove the fore stock before you turn that butt stock bolt. Once the front wood is off you will know for sure.

Otherwise there is a real danger of splitting the back end of the fore stock.

Chances are that there is no square ended butt stock bolt, but why gamble?

Usually, tightening the butt stock bolt will get rid of the wobble. If the butt has wobbled a lot over time and has worn away in the butt socket, that can be fixed too.

Don't go anywhere near that loose butt stock with epoxy compound. There are other ways to fix it as per the period armourer's methods.

--------------------
Look to your front, mark your target when it comes.

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4198
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: englishman_ca]
      #322739 - 24/12/18 07:27 AM

Quote:

Usually, tightening the butt stock bolt will get rid of the wobble. If the butt has wobbled a lot over time and has worn away in the butt socket, that can be fixed too.

Don't go anywhere near that loose butt stock with epoxy compound. There are other ways to fix it as per the period armourer's methods.



You have me intrigued englishman_ca.........please explain or show if you can, this has me rather intrigued how to do so?

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Old_rifle_nut
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Reged: 13/12/06
Posts: 100
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: 93x64mm]
      #322770 - 26/12/18 06:46 AM

Use a square-handled screwdriver & put some torque onto it to tighten. Use a correctly-fitted wrench on the square shank of the screw-driver. If your butt-stock is loose, your rifle won't group as well as it can. Also, after you have correctly cut to shape a piece of paper to use as a paper shim around the outside of the wood that fits inside the butt socket, you soak it in white glue in order to tighten up the fit. I've also used wax paper & even black tar paper when one was really loose & no spares were available. Also, make sure the end of the butt does not bottom on the face of the inner butt-socket face.
You can make up spacer washers in the event your stock bolt is too long. Don't go cutting original stock bolts. By using a washer/spacer, you can reduce the amount your bolt face protrudes from the wrist socket, BUT, you cannot lengthen a shortened bolt for the next project!

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englishman_ca
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Reged: 05/08/17
Posts: 31
Loc: Almaguin, Ontario, Canada
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: Old_rifle_nut]
      #322777 - 26/12/18 09:28 AM

I try to use traditional methods and materials for repairs whenever I can.

The original material used for the repair was one wrap of brown paper around the tenon, stuck on with shellac and one coat of shellac on the outside to seal against moisture. I have a template for the paper shim. Usually one wrap will do it, sometimes two.

The butt socket has a taper so that the further the butt is drawn into the socket, the tighter it gets. Sometimes a good whack with a mallet it needed to get the butt to seat. Don't beat on the butt plate, it will distort. Use a wooden dowel (eg. a section of a broom stick) inserted into the bolt hole (bolt removed) to drive the thing forward.
When tight, there should be a small gap between the shoulder on the tenon and the back edge of the butt socket. If the shoulder touches, there is a risk of wood chip out along the grain under recoil.

Modern materials are great in certain applications. Assembling the butt with a coating of epoxy on the tenon is a make shift repair at best, and would not allow the butt to draw up tight in the way that it needs.

If I found a vintage rifle with epoxy on the butt tenon, I would have to guess that it had been repaired in the home workshop by an owner in recent times.
If I found a vintage rifle with shellac and brown paper on the butt tenon, I would not know if it had been repaired by a gunsmith in 1918 or a hobbyist in 2018.

--------------------
Look to your front, mark your target when it comes.

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Charles_Helm
.333 member


Reged: 09/11/05
Posts: 337
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: englishman_ca]
      #325955 - 17/03/19 12:38 PM

How long a screwdriver do I need? I was distracted messing with a 318 Rimless Nitro Express and now i find that my longest screwdriver does not appear to be adequate. Is there an easy way to remove the fore end to be sure it does not split?

Thanks.

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story

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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5521
Loc: United States
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: Charles_Helm]
      #325956 - 17/03/19 12:43 PM

Remove the fore-stock first.

Shaft should be about 8.5 inches long.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Charles_Helm
.333 member


Reged: 09/11/05
Posts: 337
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Re: Loose Butt Stock [Re: 9.3x57]
      #325958 - 17/03/19 01:22 PM

Thanks very much.

--------------------
Some pictures from Namibia

Some pictures from Zimbabwe

An Elephant Story

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