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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR 375 x 2-1/2 NE- linked to an ICONIC photo
      #321304 - 06/11/18 11:41 PM

BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR 375 x 2-1/2 NE- linked to an ICONIC photo

Hello All,

I found this Bentley & Playfair 375 NE Double Rifle for sale on the internet in a classified's forum. As you may have guessed from my previous posts, I just can't resist a rifle with a story to tell. So, this one has now come to live with me in Wisconsin. Although described and pictured as a rifle with muted details from restoration, the restoration work was very well done with most markings remaining. The full coverage Engraving remains very pleasing, and shows only slight thinning in a few places. As it turns out, when received, I discovered a much finer Double Rifle than I had expected. And, the wood is stunning!

As always, your comments are welcome.


Here are the specs;

Bentley & Playfair 375 x 2-1/2" Flanged NE
Built in 1909 ?
Weight = 10 lbs 6 ounces
LOP = 13-7/8"
Barrel Length 26" - Krupp Fluid Steel
Rear Sights = 1 Standing on Matted Quarter Rib
Extractors
Chopper-lump Barrels
Rib Extension with Doll's Head
Reinforced Frame
Full Vine & Scroll Engraving
Bushed Firing Pins
Deluxe Wood
Splinter Forearm w/ Pivot Release
Letter Monogram "Tad" on Bottom of Stock Behind Grip
Sling Eyes
Solid Hard Rubber White-Line Recoil Pad


Markings as follows;

Barrel Bottoms marked - "GUSSSTAHL KRUPP ESSEN" - "74678"
Barrel Block marked - "375 EX " - "CORDITE 40-270 MAX" - "Nitro-Proof" - various British Proofs
Water-table marked - "74678" - "Bentley Playfair Trademark" - various British Proofs

The History of this rifle is most interesting to say the least. It came with 2 signed letters from LTC Joseph F. Gregory, those being a letter of Provenance, and a Bill of Sale. These letters state that the rifle was gifted to LTC Joseph F. Gregory, Senior Weapons Advisor, U.S. Dept of State, from General Loan, (pronounced 'low-ann') Director General, National Police, Vietnam 1968.

Although this rifle came up for auction 2 times in less than a month, no specific details were given about General Loan. (see pictures below and note the miss-information in the second auction listing) I dropped out of the bidding in both auctions, without success. Only after the rifle was offered for sale in a "classifieds" ad, did General Loan's infamous History come to be known. All those of the age of the Vietnam War era, like myself, remember the newscast and live footage of this iconic event. If I had simply taken the time to Google "General Loan, Vietnam War", I would have found the information myself, and I likely would have stayed in the bidding and won the first auction. = [url=https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&ei=j4XhW8SEFuaYjwT6pJSABA&q="general+Loan"+vietnam+war&oq="general+Loan"+vietnam+war&gs_l=psy-ab.12..0.15630.16282..17902...0.0..0.114.214.0j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.jhW7p_mFdFc]https://www.google.com/search?.......0i71.jhW7p_mFdFc[/url]

The shocking Photo taken by Associated Press Photographer Eddie Adams, soon took on a life of its own. It fueled the massive anti-war movement in the U.S. and became its' symbol. The iconic photo won a Pulitzer Prize in 1969 for Spot News Photography. However, Eddie Adams himself said many times that he regretted that the photo did not really tell the "complete" story, and that by taking it, he unintentionally scarred General Loan's reputation for the rest of his life. In fact, Adam's actually admitted publicly, that he wished he had never taken the photo in the first place.

Here's the story that the photo didn't tell;

"....The captured Viet Cong was disguised in civilian clothes and had just cut the throats of a South Vietnamese Officer, his wife, their six children, and the Officer’s 80-year-old mother. That Officer was under General Loan's command, and was one of his very close friends. His family was only one of many Officer's families that were butchered that night by this captured Viet Cong and his murderous band just hours before...."

I'm continuing to research LTC Joseph F. Gregory. So far I've found very little, only a record of his Pistol competition at Camp Perry in 1957. Interestingly, according to the Bill of Sale that accompanied this rifle, the second owner was "T.A. Darnall. It was he, nicknamed "Tad", that had his initials engraved on the rifles' brass escutcheon after purchasing it from Gregory.

Telling the History of this Double Rifle at various future Gun Shows here in the upper Mid-West will be most enjoyable. I fired a dozen rounds today with some old hand-loads loaded for my Westley Richards just to test for feel & function. They were loaded with 300g Hornady SPBT bullets loaded with 41.5g 3031 - they shot about 4" - 5" wide at 50 yds. The first 6 shots measured velocities were an incredible; 1821 - 1823 - 1823 - 1824 - 1821 - 1822 fps - total spread of 3 feet per second - WOW! The rifle was a pleasure to shoot with no perceivable adverse recoil. Next I will taylor some loads specifically for this rifle using some 270g bullets. I'll post the information with targets in the near future.

FIRST AUCTION LISTING


.
.
.

SECOND AUCTION LISTING






































--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4204
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR 375 x 2-1/2 NE- linked to an ICONIC photo [Re: buckstix]
      #321312 - 07/11/18 07:27 AM

Certainly has a history Buckstix!
Sounds like you have very consistent barrels with such a minute spread in velocity, still must have been a good group - even if they were offset a bit!
Very nice piece to say the least mate, can't wait to see what she'll do with the 270gn's!
Cheers


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buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR 375 x 2-1/2 NE- linked to an ICONIC photo [Re: 93x64mm]
      #321316 - 07/11/18 08:49 AM

Hello 93x64mm,

Thanks for the reply.

The 270g bullets did worse. The 300g bullets were 4" - 5" wide at an average velocity of about 1825 fps. The 270g bullets had a wider spread with a 1840 fps average. They also had vertical dispersion . (R = low right, L = high left). Next I'll be trying some more 300g bullets at a higher and slower velocity, with different powders.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR 375 x 2-1/2 NE- linked to an ICONIC photo [Re: buckstix]
      #321318 - 07/11/18 03:21 PM

Another double with history for your extensive collection Buck. Well done.
It's interesting to note that the second auction house wrongly described it as a "375 Flanged Magnum".
They also claimed that it had been reproofed at Birmingham.

The photo of the barrel flats seems to show only the original London proof marks with no sign of any reproof mark.


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450_Ackley
.375 member


Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR 375 x 2-1/2 NE- linked to an ICONIC photo [Re: 4seventy]
      #321319 - 07/11/18 06:01 PM

Try 45 grains of Varget with a 270 grain bullet, works in my Dominion.
DC


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jc5
.300 member


Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA
Re: BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR 375 x 2-1/2 NE- linked to an ICONIC photo [Re: 4seventy]
      #321320 - 07/11/18 06:06 PM


I am surprised that RIA got the caliber wrong---they handle enough guns to know better. The markings are right there in plain sight: "CORDITE 40 - 270 MAX" = 40 grains cordite behind a 270 grain bullet. They compound the error by calling it suitable for the Big Five, and a favorite of John Taylor---on the contrary, Taylor was a fan of the .375 Magnum cartridge, not the .375 Express 2 1/2" (which he disliked).

Nevertheless, great rifle and story!

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.


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buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR 375 x 2-1/2 NE- linked to an ICONIC photo [Re: jc5]
      #321325 - 07/11/18 10:16 PM

Quote:


I am surprised that RIA got the caliber wrong---they handle enough guns to know better. The markings are right there in plain sight: "CORDITE 40 - 270 MAX" = 40 grains cordite behind a 270 grain bullet.




Hello jc5

RIA was the first auction shown, and it doesn't surprise me about listing the wrong caliber. They are NOT as knowledgeable as they profess to be. The last double rifle I bought from them had this description:

".....NE - GOOD- in working condition, wear on working surfaces, finish 40% - 79%, no broken parts, no corrosion or pitting that will interfere with proper functioning.....

When I got it it had both the barrels and the rib separated for 8" at the muzzle. Something a 3rd grader would have noticed. When confronted they said; "sorry", Items are sold "as is". Then they offered me $200 toward the repair. A quote for the repair was in excess of $2,000. Of the dozen items bought from RIA, "half" were "flawed" with undisclosed damage, and errors, and one was even a "fake".

Quote:


They compound the error by calling it suitable for the Big Five, and a favorite of John Taylor---on the contrary, Taylor was a fan of the .375 Magnum cartridge, not the .375 Express 2 1/2" (which he disliked). Nevertheless, great rifle and story!



The second auction is the one with the John Taylor reference. They also listed the incorrect caliber. I chuckled at the thought of using a 375 x 2-1/2 Flanged NE on any Dangerous game. ? ?

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: BENTLEY & PLAYFAIR 375 x 2-1/2 NE- linked to an ICONIC photo [Re: 4seventy]
      #322494 - 15/12/18 11:51 PM

Quote:

Another double with history for your extensive collection Buck. Well done.
It's interesting to note that the second auction house wrongly described it as a "375 Flanged Magnum".
They also claimed that it had been reproofed at Birmingham.

The photo of the barrel flats seems to show only the original London proof marks with no sign of any reproof mark.


Hello 4seventy,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, its amazing how many "wrong" descriptions exist for auction items. Its best to always do your own research when buying.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."


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