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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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bopi
.224 member


Reged: 11/10/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Italy
Peterlongo atto II
      #317441 - 22/06/18 08:07 PM

A tutti gli Amici che mi hanno accompagnato nella ricerca nel precedente post intitolato " Peterlongo " do' il benvenuto a questo nuovo. Avevo lasciato temporaneamente dicendo che avrei seguito il suggerimento di verificare se sotto la canna, smontata la carabina, fosse presente qualche ulteriore indizio. Proprio stamattina ho deciso di recarmi da un armiere di mia conoscenza che mi ha fatto la cortesia di smontare l'arma. Di Peterlongo neanche l'ombra ma … oltre ai vari punzoni di cui già avevo evidenziato la presenza, sono presenti delle lettere in maiuscolo. Sono 4 lettere, anzi due coppie di lettere:
- la prima coppia formata da una " N " ( forse una " W " ) e da una " K"
- la seconda coppia formata da una " R " e da una " S "

Egr. Signori, possono significare qualcosa ?
Grazie. Bopi

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jgrabow
.300 member


Reged: 22/12/08
Posts: 225
Loc: Winter Wisconsin
Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: bopi]
      #317444 - 22/06/18 09:50 PM

Translation:

To all the Friends who have accompanied me in the search in the previous post entitled "Peterlongo" I welcome this new one. I had left temporarily saying that I would follow the suggestion to check if there was any further evidence under the barrel, disassembled the rifle. Just this morning I decided to go to an arm of my knowledge who gave me the courtesy to take down the weapon. Of Peterlongo not even the shadow but ... in addition to the various punches of which I had already highlighted the presence, there are letters in capital letters. They are 4 letters, or rather two pairs of letters:
- the first pair formed by an "N" (perhaps a "W") and a "K"
- the second pair formed by an "R" and an "S"

Egr. Gentlemen, can they mean something?

--------------------
Jim

Edited by jgrabow (22/06/18 09:52 PM)

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bopi
.224 member


Reged: 11/10/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Italy
Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: jgrabow]
      #317448 - 23/06/18 12:22 AM

Egr. Sig. Jgrabow,
grazie per l'aiuto prestatomi nella traduzione.
Bopi

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: bopi]
      #317450 - 23/06/18 12:55 AM

WK was the well known barrelmaker Wilhelm Kelber, Beiersgrund 3, Suhl. RS stands for Richard Schüler who ran the August Schüler company, Roschstrasse 13, Suhl, from 1913 – 1945. Richard Schüler (spelled Schueler also) was the designer of the "Herkules- action" and the Schüler cartridges 11.2x60, 11.2x72 and 12.7x70 aka .500 Schueler. Schueler made many bolt action rifles for the trade (= retail by others) too.

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9038
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: kuduae]
      #317454 - 23/06/18 04:37 AM

read somewhere that Richard Schüler was a close friend of Richard Marholdt

Peterlongo advertisement with Schüler rifle in 11,2x60




another Schüler made 11,2x72 for Peterlongo/ Marholdt
http://www.littlegun.info/arme%20autrichienne/ancien%20artisan/a%20peterlongo%20gb.htm

the Triumphal Arch in Innsbruck before WW1 you see on the wall right side "Tiroler Waffenfabrik Johann Peterlongo"







same view today


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumphal_Arch,_Innsbruck




view of the building 1910 and the peterlongo work shop, says 1939 but looks more 1920s to me




bomb hit, WW 2



the building in 1951


"Peterlongo Arms Factory and Peterlongo Sports House
In 1857, Johann Peterlongo founded the "Waffenfabrik Peterlongo" in the Maria-Theresien-Strasse 57. In addition to weapons and ammunition he also traded with equipment for hunters and shooters. Around 1938, the former employee Marholdt became Co-owner and later took over the company, gave them the name "Arms Factory Peterlongo and Marholdt". Later Marholdt built a new building on a back lot and the business moved from the Maria-Theresien-Strasse to the Landhausplatz.
Source: eyewitness reports and Innsbruck city archives

Was produced in the backyard in Stöcklgebäude. "It was a long thin building in the backyard, that was the old Peterlongo Workshop. In parallel behind, there was the shooting range, 30 m long, I can remember it well. The new workshop of the Marholdts was then in the next courtyard behind, at the Bacchus cellar. We are in my teaching again and again in the old workshop for functional shooting. "
Mr. S., former apprentice at Marholdt "
http://www.verortete-geschichten.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/04_tafel_druck.pdf



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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bopi
.224 member


Reged: 11/10/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Italy
Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: lancaster]
      #317463 - 23/06/18 03:25 PM

Egr. Signori
prima di tutto un GRAZIE enorme.
Devo dunque poter pensare :
- che il mio Stutzen sia stato fabbricato in Suhl dall'armaiolo Richard Schuler, coadiuvato da Wilhelm Kelber ?
- che, anche, con una certa attendibilità possa comunque attribuirsi a " Peterlongo " vista l'amicizia dello Schuler con Marholdt ?
Questa ultima ipotesi, non essendoci una " ufficialità " concreta ( firma, acronimo ecc. ) mi spingerebbe ad accettare di più la paternità ( che è quello che cercavo e mi interessava ) Schuler anche alla luce di una possibile commissione di Peterlongo / Marholdt.
Spero che con i Vostri lucidi, appassionati, competenti interventi possa mettere la parola FINE a questa mia ricerca.
Ricerca che senza di Voi tutti sarebbe ancora agli antipodi.
Un Abbraccio.
Bopi

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: bopi]
      #317464 - 23/06/18 03:36 PM

è così che sembra
Senza un segno preciso di Richard Schüler, tutte le speculazioni si basano sull'esperienza.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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jgrabow
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Reged: 22/12/08
Posts: 225
Loc: Winter Wisconsin
Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: lancaster]
      #317477 - 23/06/18 11:09 PM

Translation:

Egr. Gentlemen
first of all a huge THANK YOU.
I must therefore be able to think:
- that my Stutzen was made in Suhl by the gunsmith Richard Schuler, assisted by Wilhelm Kelber?
- that, also, with some reliability can still be attributed to "Peterlongo" given the friendship of Schuler with Marholdt?
This last hypothesis, since there is no concrete "officiality" (signature, acronym, etc.) would push me to accept more paternity (which is what I was looking for and interested me) Schuler also in the light of a possible commission by Peterlongo / Marholdt.
I hope that with your lucid, passionate, competent speeches I can put the word END to my research.
Research that without you everyone would still be poles apart.
A hug.

--------------------
Jim

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: jgrabow]
      #317482 - 24/06/18 01:41 AM

The specialist barrelmaker WK = Wilhelm Kelber supplied many Suhl gunmakers, Schüler just one of them, with barrels he bored and rifled.
If the rifle ever passed Mahrholdt's shop, he would certainly have had the "Peterlongo" address inscribed on the barrel. A friendship of Schüler and Mahrholdt is not important here. Another close friend of both R.Schüler and Mahrhold was Karl Burgsmüller, Kreiensen, Germany. He sold many rifles made by Schüler through his worldwide mailorder business. But any other gunshop in Europe may have retailed the rifle as well. So forget your idea fissa about Peterlongo. At least, Schüler, Suhl, is an even better provenance than the Peterlongo, Innsbruck, gunshop. Mahrholdt had most of "his" guns by various gunmakers in Suhl, Zella – Mehlis and Ferlach.

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bopi
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Reged: 11/10/17
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Loc: Italy
Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: kuduae]
      #317495 - 24/06/18 11:18 PM

Egr. Sig. Kuduae, ben ritrovato.
È con grande piacere che leggo il Suo intervento, come al solito puntuale e dovizioso come sempre e per me, profano e moooolto incompetente, fonte indispensabile di apprendimento. Al pari di Tutti gli Altri che hanno voluto, prima Ieri, ed ora Oggi, accompagnarmi e, soprattutto, guidarmi in questa esaltante Ricerca.
Per quanto riguarda l’” idea fissa “, non era tanto dettata da una recondita speranza che si trattasse di un “ Peterlongo “ quanto che fosse comunque attribuibile ad un Maestro Armaiolo.
Ho insegnato ai miei Allievi ( sono stato un Docente ) il piacere della ricerca della Verità. Avrei potuto venire meno, proprio io, a questa mia prerogativa ? No. Non me lo sarei mai perdonato.
Dunque, il mio Grazie a Tutti Voi, davvero miei Maestri,non può che essere Infinito.
Un abbraccio.
Pietro ( Bopi )

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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
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Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: bopi]
      #317500 - 25/06/18 01:07 AM

"Egr. Sig. Kuduae, ben ritrovato.
È con grande piacere che leggo il Suo intervento, come al solito puntuale e dovizioso come sempre e per me, profano e moooolto incompetente, fonte indispensabile di apprendimento. Al pari di Tutti gli Altri che hanno voluto, prima Ieri, ed ora Oggi, accompagnarmi e, soprattutto, guidarmi in questa esaltante Ricerca.
Per quanto riguarda l’” idea fissa “, non era tanto dettata da una recondita speranza che si trattasse di un “ Peterlongo “ quanto che fosse comunque attribuibile ad un Maestro Armaiolo.
Ho insegnato ai miei Allievi ( sono stato un Docente ) il piacere della ricerca della Verità. Avrei potuto venire meno, proprio io, a questa mia prerogativa ? No. Non me lo sarei mai perdonato.
Dunque, il mio Grazie a Tutti Voi, davvero miei Maestri,non può che essere Infinito.
Un abbraccio.
Pietro ( Bopi )"

Egr. Mr. Kuduae, well found.
It is with great pleasure that I read your speech, as usual, punctual and as usual as ever and for me, profane and incompetent, loooong, an indispensable source of learning. Like all the others who wanted, first Yesterday, and now Today, accompany me and, above all, guide me in this exhilarating search.
As for the "fixed idea", it was not so much dictated by a hidden hope that it was a "Peterlongo" as it was attributable to a Master Gunsmith.
I taught my students (I was a teacher) the pleasure of the search for Truth. Could I have failed, just me, to this prerogative of mine? No. I would never have forgiven him.
So, my Thanks to All of You, really my Masters, can only be Infinite.
A hug.
Pietro (Bopi)

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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bopi
.224 member


Reged: 11/10/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Italy
Re: Peterlongo atto II [Re: Igorrock]
      #317509 - 25/06/18 03:14 AM

Egr. Sig. Igorrock
come non potrei rivolgere anche a Lei un doveroso ben ritrovato ed un Grazie, enorme, per la Sua disponibilità a tradurre e, quindi, a portare agli Altri il mio pensiero di cui si potrebbe non ben intendere il concetto, essendo la lingua Italiana abbastanza ostica. Almeno sembra.
Un abbraccio.
Bopi

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