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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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Rolf
.333 member

Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Germany, Bavaria

6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher)
#316855 - 27/05/18 11:28 PM

Gentlemen,

today I had the opportunity to visit a friend who is a master gunsmith in retirement who specialises on old rifles.

One rifle was an original Mauser 98 with a Kurz-system (civil Mauser) with the caliber marking
6,5 x 54
Description:
Serial number (matching in barrel, system, mag. floorplate, flag safety and flag safety carrier - wrong name,I know, in German it is called "Schlösschen") is 912xx, the bolt is stamped with the last four digits of the serial number and the approval stamp B and U with the crown. The barrel is marked "Robert Triebel, Kaufbeuren", I think a dealer stamping. The magazine floorplate is locked with a rotating handle, the trigger is the common Mauser set trigger.
Wood is nice, but plain, and the butt pad is not original, ventilated and pretty ugly.
The front sling swivel and the front sight are attached with rings over the barrel.

We put a 6,5x54 Mannlicher Schönauer case first in the chamber, but the case was rattling in the chamber.
The next test was an original RWS 6,5x54 Mannlicher Schönauer cartridge with the long 160grs soft point bullet. Chambering this cartridge it was not possible to close the bolt (I tried only cautiously).

At home I checked the RWS-book "Wiederladen" for chamber dimensions of the two calibers (6,5x54 Mannlicher Schönauer and 6,5x54 Mauser)and found out that:
- chamber pressure in the Mauser-version is lower than the Mannlicher Schönauer
- the throat of the Mauser is shorter
- the case dimensions and shoulder angles are different
- the Schönauer uses .264"-bullets, the Mauser .261"

I would like to ask some questions to the experts regarding preparation of ammunition:
If I can locate a 6,5x54 Mauser (RCBS or CH4) reloading die, on which parent cases I should do the forming?
6,5x57

Would you try .264" bullets with cautious loads or would you swage down .264" bullets to diameter .261"?

best regards
Rolf

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9033
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: Rolf]
#316857 - 28/05/18 12:20 AM

I would use 6,5x57 basic brass and slug the barrel
maybe its .263 in reality?
anyway, swage down the bullets to .261 would be the correct way to do-

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: lancaster]
#316861 - 28/05/18 02:06 AM

For several years now I own a rifle chambered for the old 6.5x54 K Mauser cartridge. This cartridge is not to be confused with the 6.5x54 Mannlicher – Schoenauer. The photo shows, left to right, two prewar DWM factory loads, my own handload with a 120 gr .264" bullet, and a 6.5x54 M-Sch handload.

My rifle is not a Mauser K model, but a Schmidt & Habermann, Suhl, M 21 with the original period 2 ½ x Zeiss "Zielmi" scope.

As I never found proper reloading dies, I improvised from the start. I use Sellier & Bellot 6.5x57 brass to make cases. (RWS brass is less suitable for such reforming as the case walls are thicker just below the necks). Shorten the cases to 54 mm. Resize the case bodies in an 8x57 die body, without expander of course. Set back the shoulders in a shortened 6.5x55 SE FL die until bolt barely closes. The case shoulders fireform with the first use. From then on I necksize only with the same 6.5x55 old second hand Lee die. The x55 seating die works without modification, but if you want to crimp, you have to shorten it too.
My load: 34 gr VV N140 behind a .264" 120 gr bullet for about 2450 fps, close to the original ballistics. I use .264" bullets as is, without resizing them by .003".

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
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Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: kuduae]
#316864 - 28/05/18 03:16 AM

A long time ago boss of mine had one of those 6.5x54Mauser rifles. Nice little rifles. His ammo was the first one pictured with the semi-round nosed lead tipped bullet & by DWM or RWS.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: kuduae]
#316866 - 28/05/18 03:34 AM

Quote:

For several years now I own a rifle chambered for the old 6.5x54 K Mauser cartridge. This cartridge is not to be confused with the 6.5x54 Mannlicher – Schoenauer.

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Rolf
.333 member

Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Germany, Bavaria

Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: Rothhammer1]
#316883 - 28/05/18 04:39 PM

Gentlemen,

thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and giving me advice for the preparation of ammunition for this rifle!

I am very happy to be a member of this forum!

best regards
Rolf

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DORLEAC
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Reged: 22/01/12
Posts: 465
Loc: Perpignan, France

Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: Rolf]
#316922 - 30/05/18 04:16 AM

A very fine but obsolete cartridge, very pleasing to hunt with.
I use a set of RCBS forming dies I got many years ago from Huntington Specialties.
I start with .257 Roberts Federal cases (I have a batch of them and no rifle in that fine caliber) and load with 120 grains .264 bullets.
Very good results on Roe Deer.

DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com

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2152hq
.300 member

Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA

Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: DORLEAC]
#316923 - 30/05/18 07:28 AM

I have a Type M carbine in 6.5x54 (marked 6.5kp) on a Kurz action.
I'm going to find time soon to make up some ammunition and get it to the range.

I already make 256 Gibbs Magnum on cut down 6.5 Swede dies and 8x57 brass. So the above description (thank you!) isn't far off and the tools & assorted dies are already on the shelf,,somewhere!

Plenty of 120gr 6.5gr bullets to use as they don't work all that great in the 6.5x54 M/S.
Never tried them in the 256Gibbs, but as that's built on a 1903 M/S, I haven't given them a try there.

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: 2152hq]
#316959 - 31/05/18 03:50 AM

Quote:

I already make 256 Gibbs Magnum on cut down 6.5 Swede dies and 8x57 brass. So the above description (thank you!) isn't far off and the tools & assorted dies are already on the shelf,,somewhere!

BTW, a friend makes cases for his Mauser action .256 Gibbs MAGNUM by simply shortening the necks of 6.5x57 brass by 2 mm to 55 mm. He claims the .256 Gibbs Magnum is nothing else than a short necked 6.5x57.

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2152hq
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Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA

Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: kuduae]
#316974 - 01/06/18 01:12 AM

My rifles chamber won't accept the slightly larger dia head of the Swede 6.5 case, so I went to 8x57 brass which I had. I've used some 7x57 commercial brass also.

I use a cut down 6.5 Swede die set (Lee) for forming and loading, neck sizing only after the first firing. The shoulder fireforms to bit of a different angle from what the 6.5Swede FL die leaves it in sizing and forming. But I use the first process to just get a shoulder set into position well enough to feel some resistance when I close the bolt.

I must first run the 8x57 brass up into a 303Brit FL die (w/o decapper-expander). This in order to decrease the case diameter up at the shoulder and just below it.
It's an educated push into the die but easily done.
If I don't do this step first, the 8x57 brass (or any of these types I've tried) will be a touch to wide in that area and hit the side walls of the chamber giving a false headspace reading as you are pushing the shoulder back in the cut down 6.5Swede die.
I found that out with the first few rounds I made up.

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darwinmauser
.300 member

Reged: 07/05/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Darwin NT

Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: lancaster]
#316994 - 01/06/18 09:41 PM

Rolf, I think I have a set of dies in 7.65 Belgian, will have a look if your interested.

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Rolf
.333 member

Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Germany, Bavaria

Re: 6,5 x 54 Mauser (not Mannlicher) [Re: darwinmauser]
#317370 - 18/06/18 11:39 PM

@ darwinmauser:

Thank you very much for your offer, but with the advice given here I can start with my own die sets, and xausa offered to send the dies from CH4.

best regards
Rolf

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