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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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bopi
.224 member


Reged: 11/10/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Italy
Re: Peterlongo [Re: Igorrock]
      #316098 - 05/05/18 03:26 AM

Egregi Signori
Stamattina il Sig. AUER Hermann, valentissimo Maestro Armaiolo in Brunico ( BZ ), Italia, del quale mi onoro di possedere una Bolt e che “ importuno “ spesso e volentieri su questioni armiere, mi diceva che di Banchi di Prova, nell’Impero Austro – Ungarico, ce n’erano diversi ed in più luoghi. Questo mi ha spinto ad una ulteriore ricerca su Internet e sono capitato sul sito del Dottor Edoardo Mori che qui riporto:
https://www.earmi.it/armi/database/Guida...0da%20fuoco.pdf
da una rapida ricerca, mi è sembrato di capire che la punzonatura della corona con N sottostante e la sigla St.m.G si debba riferire alla Germania, periodo 1891-1912.
Non ho trovato elementi sulla sigla B.U seguito da numero seriale.
Penso che contatterò quanto prima il Dott. Mori.

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland
Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #316103 - 05/05/18 06:25 AM

"Dear Sirs
This morning Mr. AUER Hermann, very talented Master Weapon in Brunico (BZ), Italy, of which I am honored to own a Bolt and that "imposes" more often on arms issues, told me that of Test Benches, in the Austro Empire - Ungarico, there were several and in many places. This pushed me to further research on the Internet and I happened on the website of Dr. Edoardo Mori that I report here:
https://www.earmi.it/armi/database/Guida...0da%20fuoco.pdf
from a quick search, I seemed to understand that the punching of the crown with N below and the initials St.m.G should refer to Germany, period 1891-1912.
I did not find any elements on the abbreviation B.U followed by serial number.
I think I will contact Dr. Mori as soon as possible."


You should find somewhere book Speed-Schmid-Herrman: Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles
There is a long list dated m98 Mauser serial numbers with BU, BUG and BUGN proof markings. With this list I dated yours rifle.



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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Peterlongo [Re: Igorrock]
      #316126 - 06/05/18 12:46 AM


Pre WW2 German proofs (from the 1939 Stoeger catalog):


Click the link below for step - by - step instructions to use picr.de. It is a very simple way to post photos at no cost:

How to post photos

Here is a link to their 'site directly:

picr.de

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sharps4590
.333 member


Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 270
Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: Peterlongo [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #316157 - 06/05/18 09:48 PM

I have a Johann Peterlongo rifle in the proprietary 9 X 71 Peterlongo cartridge. First, I know very little of Peterlongo or his rifles other than mine. Mine has a banner on the front the receiver ring that states "Johann Peterlongo, Innsbruk".

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Peterlongo [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #316158 - 06/05/18 10:16 PM

Rothhammer, there are some misconceptions in the above table of German proofmarks used 1893 -1939, as published by Stoeger in 1939:
The German Imperial eagle was the mark for primary proof of the rough bored barrels alone. Rarely on post-WW1 guns. From the start primary proof was not mandatory. At the times of hammer welded damascus barrels it was for the sake of the gunmaker, to keep him from investing work into faulty barrel blanks.
The crown/B = Beschuss = proof load fired mark is not restricted to "foreign arms". It is the mark for the final proof.
The crown/U = Untersuchung = View mark stand for the inspection after final proof firing.
Crown/G = Geschoss is for guns using a solid projectile, mostly rifles, but some smoothbores too.
Crown/N stands for Nitro = smokeless proof, of course.
So a German proofed rifle barrel usually shows four marks, crown/B, crown/U, crown/G and crown/N, BUGN in short.
Exceptions: The Oberndorf proofhouse at the Mauser factory before 1918 marked commercial sporters on 98 actions BU only. All 98 action arms then were rifles and used smokeless cartridges. Why mark the obvious? After the end of WW1 Geha and Remo shotguns on 98 actions appeared, so Oberndorf marked the rifles BUG. In the 1920s Mauser started to build Wehrmannsgewehre on 98 actions for the originally blackpowder 8.15x46R target cartridge. From then on Oberndorf used the full BUGN set.
From 1893 to about 1923 an alternate set of proofmarks was used on some rifles. The marks were a big crown with the crown/N mark besides. These marks indicated proof using the special smokeless "4000 atm proof powder".

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Peterlongo [Re: kuduae]
      #316159 - 06/05/18 10:29 PM

hopi, I don't understand your Italian posts. This is an English language forum. Why don't you post in English, as everybody else does? Ich poste ja auch nicht auf Deutsch.
As your rifle has German pre-1940 proofmarks it was definitely not made by Peterlongo in Innsbruck, Austria, but by someone in Suhl or Zella – Mehlis,Germany. If there is the Peterlongo address somewhere on barrel or receiver, it was made in Germany for retail by Peterlongo. If the word "Peterlongo" does not appear on the rifle, it may have been retailed by anyone, including Peterlongo.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member


Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California
Re: Peterlongo [Re: kuduae]
      #316189 - 07/05/18 04:26 PM

Quote:

Rothhammer, there are some misconceptions in the above table of German proofmarks used 1893 -1939, as published by Stoeger in 1939:...




Thank you again, Herr Eichendorff!

As usual, your post is concise, precise, and very informative. Such information is solid gold and I appreciate your efforts to communicate and share your knowledge for the benefit of all.


Stoeger's purpose, of course, was selling product to their U.S. customers. As importers of Mauser, Luger, Mannlicher Schoenauer, and some other European arms they offered only this cursory explanation:


--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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bopi
.224 member


Reged: 11/10/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Italy
Re: Peterlongo [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #316212 - 08/05/18 07:30 PM

Egregi Signori
ringrazio tutti per i Vostri competenti interventi. Dovrò, per problemi di connessione con Internet, diradare i miei interventi e leggere le Vostre graditissime e, ripeto, competenti informazioni. Me ne scuso, ma durerà solo per questo mese di Maggio.
Pubblico quanto il Dr. Mori, da me interpellato, mi ha fatto pervenire.
" Le armi Peterlongo recano il suo nome; non aveva ragione di nasconderlo. Talvolta faceva costruire le armi altre ditte, ma sempre sotto il proprio marchio.
La ditta e la stata fondata dal padre Peter nel 1854 a Innsbruck e morto nel 1898; Johann Peterlongo, nato nello stesso anno della fondazione, entrò da giovane nella ditta che aveva anche una sede secondaria a Ferlach. La ditta andò male, non produceva più direttamente e si occupava solo della rendita, e dopo la morte del padre si associò al noto esperto di armi Mahrholdt che fino la 1914 la portò à fama mondiale. Dopa la guerra la ditta venne proseguita dal figlio Hans Peter che la cedette al Mahrholdt nel 1939
La scritta Krupp Laufstahl vuol solo dire che le canne sono state prodotte con acciaio di tale marca.
È possibile che nel periodo di crisi abbia fatto produrre da altre ditte e che abbia venduto senza mettere il proprio nome; ma mi pare una cosa strana perché in quel periodo il nome e l'unica cosa che gli era rimasto!"
Cordiali saluti a Tutti.
Pietro

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bopi
.224 member


Reged: 11/10/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Italy
Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #316247 - 10/05/18 05:15 AM

Egr. Sig. Kuduae
sono un vecchiaccio di 68 anni che solo da pochi anni ( 5 ) si è dedicato alla caccia degli ungulati alpini ( Alpi Piemontesi ) e quindi alla canna rigata della quale è completamente incompetente. Purtroppo lo scrivente ha un grosso difetto: è appassionato di armi. In particolare dell'Artigianato armiero.Ho acquistato quello Stutzen perché mi ricordava il Mannlicher Schonauer ( posseggo 2 bolt MCA )ben sapendo che invece la meccanica fosse di un K98 ma ... se riuscissi a dare una Paternità al mio Stutzen, non necessariamente deve essere Peterlongo, avrei toccato il cielo con un dito.La passione è anche questo.
Pietro

ps purtroppo non conosco le lingue e non mi fido del traduttore di Google.Devo ringraziare di cuore il Sig.Igorrock che ha tradotto i miei interventi permettendo a tanti di Voi di intervenire e di farmi pervenire il proprio contributo.
Grazie a Tutti.

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland
Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #316286 - 11/05/18 04:56 PM

"Egr. Mr. Kuduae
I am a 68 year old old man who only a few years ago (5) has dedicated himself to the hunting of alpine ungulates (Piedmont Alps) and therefore to the barrel of which he is completely incompetent. Unfortunately the writer has a major flaw: he is passionate about weapons. In particular, I bought the Stutzen craft because it reminded me of the Mannlicher Schonauer (I own 2 bolt MCA) knowing full well that the mechanics was a K98 but ... if I could give a Paternity to my Stutzen, not necessarily being Peterlongo, I would have touched the sky with a finger. Passion is also this.
Peter

ps unfortunately I do not know the languages and I do not trust the Google translator. I would like to thank Mr Igorrock who has translated my speeches allowing many of you to intervene and to send me your contribution.
Thank you all."

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Peterlongo [Re: Igorrock]
      #316287 - 11/05/18 07:30 PM

bopi, at 68 you are a young man to me. I am 70. Maybe we can find the real maker of your rifle. At least we may be able to date it and where it was made and proofed. You have to take the rifle apart , out of the stock, and post photos of all the marks and numbers under the barrel.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

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bopi
.224 member


Reged: 11/10/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Italy
Re: Peterlongo [Re: kuduae]
      #316288 - 11/05/18 07:48 PM

Egr. Sig. Kuduae
un Grazie ed un Abbraccio di cuore e sincero. Alcune foto le ho, ma non oso smontare l'arma; dovrò rivolgermi ad un esperto; cosa che farò appena rientrerò nel luogo di residenza a fine mese. Chiedo a Tutti coloro che mi stanno sostenendo nella ricerca ( per me entusiasmante )di pazientare.
Un caloroso Grazie e Saluti di cuore.
Pietro
ps Grazie particolarmente a Lei, Sig.Igorrock

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland
Re: Peterlongo [Re: bopi]
      #316293 - 11/05/18 11:22 PM

"Egr. Mr. Kuduae
a thank you and an embrace of heart and sincere. I have some photos, but I dare not disassemble the weapon; I will have to contact an expert; which I will do as soon as I return to the place of residence at the end of the month. I ask all those who are supporting me in the search (exciting for me) to be patient.
A warm Thanks and Greetings from the heart.
Peter
ps Thanks particularly to you, Mr. Igorock"

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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bopi
.224 member


Reged: 11/10/17
Posts: 28
Loc: Italy
Re: Peterlongo [Re: Igorrock]
      #317449 - 23/06/18 12:25 AM

Per gli Amici che mi hanno seguito in questa " avventura ", ho aperto questa mattina un nuovo post intitolato " Peterlongo Atto II ".
Bopi

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