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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

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Hook
.224 member

Reged: 01/03/18
Posts: 37
Loc: Heart of Dixie

Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope
#313483 - 05/03/18 12:04 AM

I finally began load development for my 1903 M-S. It is a 1939 model with a Hensoldt scope in Akah claw mounts. Here are some pics:

Initial loads were with 160 gr RN type bullets and, regardless of bullet or powder, the groups tend to land around 4.5" left at 100 yards. The old scope still adjusts vertically without a problem, but I am hesitant about options for windage adjustment. As I understand it, the two options are to drift the front claw mount dovetail or use the opposing screws in the rear base. The front dovetails may be difficult or impossible to move and the rear adjustment, as I understand it, actually bends the scope tube to move the reticle.

Should I just use Kentucky windage and aim to the right while hunting, or risk moving the scope mounts and possibly damaging this fine old scope in the process.

This is my first experience with these rifles and scopes and their mounts. I want to move very carefully.

Edited by Hook (06/03/18 01:22 AM)

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sharps4590
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Reged: 09/03/16
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Loc: Missouri Ozarks

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: Hook]
#313484 - 05/03/18 12:46 AM

Adjust the front base and shoot.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: sharps4590]
#313485 - 05/03/18 03:00 AM

move the srews before and look if it will be enough. its common you have some pressure on the scope but it will work most times.

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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: lancaster]
#313489 - 05/03/18 03:36 AM

4" is nothing to be concerned about, imho. I would move the bases, either front or back.

They move the same as iron sights, front opposite, rear same, so you will have to move the front base to the left - not much, though, I would imagine .020" or .030".

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: lancaster]
#313490 - 05/03/18 03:39 AM

Move the front base in it's dovetail only if the scope is completely off. The rear "ring" adjustment screws are meant for windage adjustment. Forget about that "bending the scope tube"! The movement is minimal and of no consequence. Unfortunately, the windage adjustment screws are of two arrangements, invisible from the outside. Some pull the top over, others push it . So start loosening one screw just a quarter turn and tighten the other one. Shoot the rifle again to see the movement. Such a quarter turn will move the impact by about 5 inches at 100 meters. A bore sighter is of great help here. As the adjustment screws and/or sliding dovetail are often rusted or gummed up tight, I usually at first remove one screw completely, without touching the other one. Then I apply some penetrating oil (WD40) to the inside. This allows you to see if the mount is of the "push" or "pull" type: if the screw threads are in the lower part of the assembly, they push the scope over, if in the top part, they pull.

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: sharps4590]
#313503 - 05/03/18 11:07 AM

Post deleted by Rothhammer1

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Hook
.224 member

Reged: 01/03/18
Posts: 37
Loc: Heart of Dixie

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: Rothhammer1]
#313504 - 05/03/18 11:27 AM

Thanks, guys....I appreciate your input!

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
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Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: kuduae]
#313505 - 05/03/18 11:27 AM

Quote:

Move the front base in it's dovetail only if the scope is completely off. The rear "ring" adjustment screws are meant for windage adjustment. Forget about that "bending the scope tube"! The movement is minimal and of no consequence. Unfortunately, the windage adjustment screws are of two arrangements, invisible from the outside. Some pull the top over, others push it . So start loosening one screw just a quarter turn and tighten the other one. Shoot the rifle again to see the movement. Such a quarter turn will move the impact by about 5 inches at 100 meters. A bore sighter is of great help here. As the adjustment screws and/or sliding dovetail are often rusted or gummed up tight, I usually at first remove one screw completely, without touching the other one. Then I apply some penetrating oil (WD40) to the inside. This allows you to see if the mount is of the "push" or "pull" type: if the screw threads are in the lower part of the assembly, they push the scope over, if in the top part, they pull.

I always enjoy reading your posts, Herr Eichendorff.

This is exactly the type of information that makes this 'site so informative, especially when from trusted sources such as yourself and 'Marblekonus'.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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HeymSR20
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 245
Loc: Scotland

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: Rothhammer1]
#313521 - 05/03/18 09:09 PM

How tight are the front claws? If there is a bit of slack, two simple ways to sort it. The scope should have enough tension that it will hold itself at c30 degrees off fully fitted

1) careful use of a vice - tighten the two claws together. Into the vice and just a tweak should be enough.

2) take the front ring off scope. Clamp a piece of round bar in the vice and then take a ball hammer and give the base of the claws a few sharp taps. Also may need to give the actual hooks a tap or two to bend up. This should have the effect of shortening and fattening the claws slightly and go from a loose to a snug fit. Do it slowly and try lots.

You can do the same to rear if needs be but it doesn’t need to be as tight. Take it apart first though. When reassembling make sure the rear claw is hard against the forward edge of its base. This acts as a recoil stop.

Windage adjustment is on the rear and doesn’t take much of a turn to move it. A bore sighter really helps and saves lots of ammo.

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Hook
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Reged: 01/03/18
Posts: 37
Loc: Heart of Dixie

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: HeymSR20]
#313558 - 06/03/18 11:50 AM

Took the little jewel out to work on the windage issue. After monkeying around with the windage screws in the rear base, and finding that minor adjustments made with them allowed the scope to be reinstalled without having to push the scope right or left to get the rear claw to engage, I was able to get the windage corrected. I'll have to admit that there were a couple of times that I moved the scope in the wrong direction, requiring me start over, but it was an interesting process. Witness marks on the base would have been nice....

The post reticle in the scope is rather broad and has a 'hairy' look to it, as does the crosshair. A friend said this fuzziness was due to rust on the reticle. It really needs to be reconditioned but I can see the reticle well enough and the optics, though slightly cloudy, are clear enough, to hunt with. This rifle will be used for stalk hunting and the scope should be perfect for that. Unless the reticle breaks, I will leave it as is.

The rifle shows an ability to be quite accurate. The fuzzy post and my eyes will probably keep most groups in the 1.5"-2" range. This is with two different 160 gr RN bullets and one 156 gr RN. All loads are 40 gr of H4831 SC which averages about 2025 fps. That will work nicely for my purposes.
Thank you all again for your comments and suggestions!

Edited by Hook (06/03/18 11:54 AM)

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HeymSR20
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 245
Loc: Scotland

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: Hook]
#313592 - 07/03/18 07:03 AM

I am sure there will be somebody in the US who can recondition old scopes. A good clean can improve things hugely. You might well be able to use a more modern 4x32 scope. Front mount should be an issue. The rear is soldered on but this can be removed and new scope bonded in place with epoxy. Alternatively Recknagel still make rings for these rifke. New England custom gun I think are the US agent.

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: HeymSR20]
#313593 - 07/03/18 07:15 AM

Well done Hook!
One of those in the boiler room will certainly fix things.
Great to see that you got it sorted....don't forget to do those witness marks!

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Hook
.224 member

Reged: 01/03/18
Posts: 37
Loc: Heart of Dixie

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: HeymSR20]
#313594 - 07/03/18 07:52 AM

Quote:

I am sure there will be somebody in the US who can recondition old scopes.

Before I bought the rifle, I spoke with Larry at L&K Scope Repair in Missouri. My cursory glance through the scope when I first saw it at the gun store gave me the impression that it was unusable. I made the purchase thinking it would need a rebuild.

Larry has reconditioned two old scopes for me in the past with excellent results. One was a Weaver 330 M8 and the other was a Pecar. He said he could clean, recondition, and reseal the Hensoldt but he could not replace the post. He would have to go back with a cross hair.

After the purchase I was able to more thoroughly check the scope out and discovered that it is actually in fairly good shape. I think it might be challenging to use in very low light conditions, but that isn't the way I plan to hunt with it. So, my plan is to use it as is, and rebuild it if the reticle breaks or I just want it to have more clarity.

There are other companies that ca rebuild the scope, but I am familiar with L&K and woud use them if needed.

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Rothhammer1
.400 member

Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: Hook]
#313609 - 07/03/18 01:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I am sure there will be somebody in the US who can recondition old scopes.

Before I bought the rifle, I spoke with Larry at L&K Scope Repair in Missouri.

Larry has reconditioned two old scopes for me in the past with excellent results. I am familiar with L&K and woud use them if needed.

I am glad to read another good review of L&K's services. I am considering sending my Gerard Model B to them for a recondition, as something is loose and rattling inside.

How long was the 'turn around'?

L&K

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Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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Hook
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Reged: 01/03/18
Posts: 37
Loc: Heart of Dixie

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: Rothhammer1]
#313640 - 08/03/18 12:44 AM

My Weaver was done last March and the turn around was about 6-7 weeks IIRC.

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Rothhammer1
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Reged: 06/01/17
Posts: 1826
Loc: The Redwoods of California

Re: Adjusting Hensoldt Dialyt Scope [Re: Hook]
#313673 - 08/03/18 05:24 PM

Quote:

My Weaver was done last March and the turn around was about 6-7 weeks IIRC.

Far better than I would expect!

All the more reason to send mine in.

--------------------
Citizen of the Cherokee Nation

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