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Ripp
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Loc: Montana, USA
1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service....
      #305371 - 15/09/17 09:27 AM

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/arti...m_campaign=0917


Pressed into service for World War I, the 1911 pistol was an immediate success, prized for its accuracy and ease of reloading.

Although it has been with us for more than a century, the 1911 pistol is still going strong as one of America’s premier fighting pistols. It has served us through two World Wars, Korea, Vietnam and countless other military engagements, both large and small. And, even though it was phased out of regular military service after Grenada, it is still used by special units to this day.

On the homefront, the 1911 became the favorite of some lawmen from its very inception. Quite a number of early peace officers saw the value of the big semi-auto, especially in the face of Prohibition and the violence brought on by the Great Depression. In the late ’60s and ’70s it began to make serious inroads into uniform police work due to the teachings of Col. Jeff Cooper of Gunsite Academy fame and others.


Arming U.S. GIs in the Pacific campaign, the 1911 saw action alongside iconic arms like the Thompson submachine gun and the Stuart tank.

And, all the while, the 1911 pistol continually gained in popularity among armed citizens. Although I don’t know of any records that are being kept, I would guess more armed citizens own 1911s today than any other defensive pistol. And there are some very good reasons for this continued popularity.

One of these reasons is that the 1911 is an easy pistol to learn to shoot. It is easy to learn to shoot safely and it is an easy gun to learn to shoot well. Thanks to John Browning’s innovative design, most shooters find the controls easy to understand and easy to manipulate. In addition, the pistol’s single-action trigger is easy to manage and fosters accurate shooting.

There are those who would have us believe the 1911 is an expert’s pistol, not fit for the average shooter. Nothing could be further from the truth. With proper training, just about anyone can learn to handle this pistol safely and effectively. And everyone should get proper training, regardless of the type of pistol that they choose to carry and shoot.

Another concern that is often heard is that the 1911 pistol is too heavy for daily defensive carry. However, we find that many of the compact guns only weigh just a bit over 20 ounces, while compact and lightened versions of the 1911 are available under 30 ounces, significantly closing this gap. Many of us carry gear (phones, lights, etc.) that weighs a good deal more than that.


In use even today, the 1911 is the choice of select U.S. forces that have many handgun options, yet stick with John Moses Browning’s famous design.

That is one of the beauties of the 1911 design; there are numerous sizes to fit a particular shooter’s needs. One has the choice of the Government model, the Combat Commander, the Lightweight Commander, the long-slide pistol, and various models of compact and sub-compact pistol, all in the 1911 format. In addition, the 1911 design can be found in .45 ACP, 9 mm, .38 Super, .40 S&W, 10 mm, .357 SIG and probably some others that I have overlooked. Considering the various 1911s being offered today, there is a size and chambering to suit virtually everyone.

This big auto can also be fairly easily modified to fit shooter’s hands, regardless of how large or small they might be. Persons with small hands will find that the gun fits them well when fitted with thin stocks and a short trigger. Brownells also offers a replacement thumb safety with a low-mounted thumb piece to accommodate small hands. Shooters with large hands will generally find that they need thicker stocks in order to fill their hand and allow them to position their trigger finger properly. In their case, a long trigger may also be an aide to proper fit.

Shooting-supply companies offer a wide variety of accessories for the 1911 pistol. All manner of mainspring housings, stocks of various materials, and sights of all kinds, are just some of the accessories that allow the shooter to personalize his or her pistol. As with any handgun, especially one used for personal defense, it is a good idea to have some of these add-on parts fitted by a gunsmith.

Just a quick scan of the various gun companies shows that something like 30 of them currently offer some form of 1911. And the prices vary quite a bit. For the consumer this means that there is a 1911 variant available to fit just about any budget.

Some may be put off by the fact that this particular handgun has been around so long. Surely, the more modern guns must be better. However, one might want to consider the fact that, since the gun has been around quite a while, manufacturers and gunsmiths know just about everything there is to know about how to make the gun run and how to keep it running. In addition, qualified defensive trainers know how to teach the 1911 to make it most effective in a life-or-death situation. Tradition truly gives one the edge when they are armed with this particular handgun.


Participants in the 2016 National Police Shooting Championships in Albuquerque, NM, used 1911-style pistols for numerous matches.

I won’t pretend to tell you that the 1911 is the only handgun that should be considered for personal defense. There are lots of good choices. However, I would suggest to you that the 1911 is still around because it has proven its merits as a fighting pistol. It is as old as Pershing’s punitive expedition into Mexico and Frank Hamer’s ambush of Bonnie & Clyde. But it is also as current as the latest defensive encounter by an armed citizen, which was probably yesterday.

Yes, the 1911 pistol is shrouded in tradition and a rich history of military and self-defensive pistolcraft. But, if that was all that it was about, it would have died off many years ago. The 1911 pistol is still around and still being used because it is an excellent choice as a fighting handgun. And, it will probably continue to save lives long after many of us have gone on to our eternal reward. It is truly a premier fighting handgun.

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Homer
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Posts: 3081
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Ripp]
      #305377 - 15/09/17 05:27 PM

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 1911 Donuts!

Avagreatweekendeh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

Edited by Homer (16/09/17 07:16 AM)


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Rule303
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Ripp]
      #305386 - 15/09/17 07:24 PM

I find the 911 to be a sizeable and weight pistol. Suits me and a mate who is somewhat shorter and has a hand size to match his height.

The 911 and the Browning Hi power both have, to me, the best grip angle of any hand gun. Just wish the Glock's grip angle was the same.

Meant to add. The 911 is one of the most reliable, in mil spec, hand guns going.

Edited by Rule303 (15/09/17 07:26 PM)


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Rule303]
      #305393 - 15/09/17 11:08 PM

Quote:

I find the 911 to be a sizeable and weight pistol. Suits me and a mate who is somewhat shorter and has a hand size to match his height.

The 911 and the Browning Hi power both have, to me, the best grip angle of any hand gun. Just wish the Glock's grip angle was the same.

Meant to add. The 911 is one of the most reliable, in mil spec, hand guns going.




If you are looking for a polymer with a better grip angle, the gen 5 Glock is improved however I feel one of the best I have shot in the past year is the H&K VP9...and has an excellent trigger and better sights than the out of the box Glock, IMHO..

Don't think you will ever get a polymer that will feel like a 1911 however..same can be said of the trigger...that is a timeless design..no one had really improved on since..

Back to the Glock, I have shot several with a ZEV trigger in them..very very nice...but also an addl $265. I just picked up a Model 17 Gen 5--putting new Trijicon sights on it this week..want to shoot it compared to the H&K...will advise

thx

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Postman
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Ripp]
      #305394 - 15/09/17 11:40 PM

When I started shooting IPSC many years ago, I started with a 1911 .45ACP. About 17 years ago I traded my competition Para single stack for a Les Baer "Ultimate Master" 1911. I still despise the pretentious name of the Baer, but it is a work of art and continues to shoot flawlessly. I never quite achieved "IPSC Master Class" but I did make "A" class before I stopped competing when my knee went out. I'm now sporting new synthetic body parts and my knee is getting stronger so I hope to eventually return to the IPSC circuit where my Les Baer will once again be pressed into reliable service.

I love playing with all manner of pistols and revolvers, but for serious work, I would never consider anything but a 1911. If you want to determine what truly works best, simply have a look at the competitive circuit where the free market rules and see what the vast majority of people shoot. The best of the best shooters, where skill is not deterred by moderate equipment variances, tend to be driven by sponsorship $$ so what they use is not necessarily indicative of what is a "better" pistol. It is the unwashed masses that one needs to examine where one pays their own freight that one gets an idea of what is "the best". This is particularly true in Standard division where fancy heavily modified and compensated Darth Vader Open division pistols are not permitted to rule the day.

Edited by Postman (16/09/17 01:36 AM)


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Maxim
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Postman]
      #305395 - 16/09/17 01:48 AM

I too shot IPSC at it's inception with a self assembled 1911 from an AMT (Arcadia Machine and Tool boy is that a long time ago) frame, a beat up Gold Cup slide and over time, a few barrels, slide stop pins, mainspring pins. Poor thing must have 50-60,000 through it. Not as tight as it used to be but I get it out and blast. Have a couple more and cracked the frame on a no name frame right in front of the trigger guard, never saw that before. Always fun when some one comes by and has never fired a 1911 and the look on their face after a magazine or two...
Had an opportunity to shoot the Les Baer guaranteed match job and it was sweet, but nearly $3K.

I was Ordnance officer for 60 - Glock 22's when they first came out and the only thing they could manage to break on them is knock the front sight off. I never replaced anything except the mainsprings after a few years which we just felt was prudent for pistols going into harms way.
I found with the Glock 26 smaller stature persons who do not grip firmly, the thing short strokes though I never have had that problem.


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DarylS
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Maxim]
      #305396 - 16/09/17 03:07 AM

I started off IPSC back in 1975 or 6 with a 4" S&W M29, shooting 275 SWC with 21gr. 2400.

I could not get up out of C class, on the edge of B, winning C, but never better.

A friend loaned me his nickle plated 1975-era 1911 - 1st match with that gun put me well into "A", I think 7th or 8th place.
Great gun, even stock.

Now-a-days, it's a race gun sport - form what I've seen, I'm not interested in it. Hell, Cowboy action challenge long range match, where they leg you get set up, before the whistle is about as fast as I move these days.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Maxim]
      #305401 - 16/09/17 04:36 AM

Quote:

I too shot IPSC at it's inception with a self assembled 1911 from an AMT (Arcadia Machine and Tool boy is that a long time ago) frame, a beat up Gold Cup slide and over time, a few barrels, slide stop pins, mainspring pins. Poor thing must have 50-60,000 through it. Not as tight as it used to be but I get it out and blast. Have a couple more and cracked the frame on a no name frame right in front of the trigger guard, never saw that before. Always fun when some one comes by and has never fired a 1911 and the look on their face after a magazine or two...
Had an opportunity to shoot the Les Baer guaranteed match job and it was sweet, but nearly $3K.

I was Ordnance officer for 60 - Glock 22's when they first came out and the only thing they could manage to break on them is knock the front sight off. I never replaced anything except the mainsprings after a few years which we just felt was prudent for pistols going into harms way.
I found with the Glock smaller stature persons who do not grip firmly, the thing short strokes though I never have had that problem.




I have a friend who worked for the dept of homeland security for a few years..his boss had him take out one of the Glocks to try to make it fail..he told me he had as much ammo as he wanted to shoot.....he said the same thing as you..said he even threw it repeatedly into a brick wall..mud, etc..never did get it they are NO where near a 1911 as to feel and trigger pull, as I said before I want it to go bang every time..I am reasonably certain the Glock and HK will do that...alsout reasonably certain the standard 1911 out of the box would have failed under the same scenarios ..

Have several friends who are in the local Sheriff's office--they were all issued high dollar 1911's for their duty guns...all the deputies in my class love how they shoot, also state how they are very accurate, but hate carrying them all day long..said along with all their other gears weight, they would much rather go back to the polymer types..

I also have numerous 1911's..Colts, Springfields, Kimbers, and 1 Dan Wesson..love all of them, but carry a polymer for CC...lighter, thinner, easier to conceal/carry and very reliable in my experience...

Agree with the comment, for competition pretty hard to beat what they are using in the race gun class..speaks for itself..but this is also way different than all day carrying for personal defense, IMHO

Ripp

Edited by Ripp (16/09/17 10:06 AM)


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Postman
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Ripp]
      #305403 - 16/09/17 05:36 AM

The Tupperware guns are surely indestructible and light weight, and you can put them in the dishwasher at night for cleaning

I've never had opportunity to carry all day and in Kanuckistan, never will. It might change my views some, but I expect I'd be pre disposed to go to a light weight commander style 1911 and a Les Baer would be my top choice given the utter reliability of my present one. I will admit that I am very biased toward single stack single action autoloaders. I know Glocks are good guns but I just can't bring myself to like 'em very much.

WRT to modern IPSC, it has become a sport tilted toward gamers vs the practical shooting it was originally intended to emulate. Word has it that the gamer side of IPSC spawned IDPA to try to get closer to the original intent of IPSC.

Edited by Postman (16/09/17 05:40 AM)


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DarylS
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Postman]
      #305406 - 16/09/17 06:41 AM

When packing my Model 29, I did not mind the revolver's weight at all. It was comforting to know I had a decent gun on my hip. Those days are long-gone, but did like it while it happened.
My bro packed a 1917 .45 Colt. He never complained about the weight, either.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Homer
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: DarylS]
      #305407 - 16/09/17 07:22 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Ripp FYI, I have a Bul M5 (polymer double stack frame, with 1911 top end and internals), in .38 Super.
Whilst it is obviously physically bigger (and not concealable) than a standard 1911, it's not excessive and I really like it.
iirc, Kimber re-badged and marketed these under the Kimber banner, for a couple of years.

Regards
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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416rigby
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Homer]
      #305412 - 16/09/17 03:22 PM

I've carried my Kimber Compact CDP every day for the past 12 years, and while it's heavier than a plastic one, I don't think there's anything better for me. I really like the 4" barrel/Officer grip combination. There's no pistol more classic and beautiful, either.

--------------------
"Life's too short to hunt with an ugly gun"

U.S. Coast Guard, retired


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: 416rigby]
      #305422 - 16/09/17 08:54 PM

Something I never knew before. Last year when I was involved in Legislation and Regulations discussion for this state, the IPSC representative said that before 2003 (?) ie the second "buyback" of handguns over .38 and smaller size, that the 1911 .45 ACP handgun was one of the most popular or more numerous of handguns legally owned by private persons in Australia. And that it was specifically targeted for "steal-off" for the objective of 'reducing privately held handguns'.

Never knew it was the most popular handgun of the day.

Is this true?

I know I seriously looked at acquiring one in the 1990's but never did. Not arranging a handgun licence until recently.

I do know the IPSC guys very much wanted to have it legal again for IPSC competitions. But always hit brickwalls at least in SA. Claims it has to be permitted under the National Firearms Act before SA will permit it. Yet as they said, it is permitted for IPSC in one or more other states. Only competitions listed under Commonwealth and possibly Olympic disciplines are permitted and where the handgun needs sufficient power to knock over metal silhouette targets.

A shame.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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93x64mm
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: NitroX]
      #305442 - 17/09/17 07:50 AM

John, not sure if the .45 would have enough oomph here...possibly?
So unless you shot it in this event, no other way around it.
When all this went down, none of this was explained at all to anyone, really pissed everyone off!
http://ssaaqld.org.au/pistol-metallic-silhouette
cheers


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: 93x64mm]
      #305446 - 17/09/17 07:58 AM

Quote:

John, not sure if the .45 would have enough oomph here...possibly?
So unless you shot it in this event, no other way around it.
When all this went down, none of this was explained at all to anyone, really pissed everyone off!
http://ssaaqld.org.au/pistol-metallic-silhouette
cheers




Didn't say it was suitable or justified for this role. But that is the justification needed per Police to overcome the greater than .38 calibre restriction, is that the handgun is needed for metallic silhouette. Powerful enough to knock the targets down.

Shooting paper with a .45 is not considered any sort of legal justification.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Homer
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: NitroX]
      #305451 - 17/09/17 09:23 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Yes Nitro X, the 1911 in .45 ACP was exceedingly popular.
Back in those days, there was less restriction on What and How Many handguns you could own.
So pretty well every body at the club, that shot IPSC, etc, had at least one .45 ACP.

The serious competition shooters and "Wanna Be's", had moved over to the .38 Super, 9x23 etc, as you had more magazine capacity and less recoil. But these blokes probably still had at least one .45 ACP.

Hope that addresses your question?

Regards
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Homer]
      #305458 - 17/09/17 10:24 AM

I remember seeing an advert for 1911 frames and parts from Vic available by mail order.

Now frames were registerable in SA. But not barrels.

And frames were not registerable in Vic, barrels were at the time.

So ...

Never did it however but was tempted. Way too honest and law abiding like most of us are.

Later I believe I heard some rumour from the Police that bikie gangs were putting together 1911's from parts illegally ... go figure!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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SharpsNitro
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: NitroX]
      #305459 - 17/09/17 11:07 AM

I've owned many 1911 pistols over the last 30 years. It all started with an old Colt Combat Commander in the 80s which was a really nice gun. The later Colts were junk. The Kimbers I had were junk. The Fusions I had were really nice. The Ed Brown I had was really something. These days I've settled on a couple of Nighthawks, a T3 and an Enforcer so I think I'm done now as I have the best.

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Homer
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #305464 - 17/09/17 05:59 PM

G'Day Fella's,

FYI, I recently completed a rear sight mount, for my above mentioned BUL M5 pistol.
Here's a link and some images of it and this double stack, polymer framed 1911.
https://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=36245#p397014

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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Rule303
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Re: 1911-pistol- 100-plus-years-of-dependable-service.... [Re: Homer]
      #305468 - 17/09/17 10:01 PM

from limited personal experience and much research I have come to the following conclusions:
1. The 1911, Hi Power, CZ75 -all in mil spec- and the Glock are the most reliable side arms going. Yes more than most revolvers, hard to come at I know.

2. For competitions the 1911 is extremely hard to beat. Now the following applies to comp and duty guns. The 1911 is about the fastest cycling pistol. The top comp blokes, this includes people like Sammy Davis jr and Jerry Lewis, can run the trigger on even a 1911 faster than the slide/gun operates, hence for speed shooting they use revolvers.

I was running a range on an RAAF base when an Addgie (ADG Airfield Defence Guard) asked if he could just run some mags through the Glock he had, a 19. Gun held with both hands at belly height, he had 15 cases in the air, 6" group from 20 mts. Said they had been having trouble with it and just testing to it was OK. I asked what trouble. Failing to cycle. Said it was the 1st 19 into Aust for testing ( To see if it was pilot proof he said), had over 3 million through it and they had only had to change the springs and this is what they had just done. I don't care if it was only half a mil through it, that is a lot of rounds for any gun.


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