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crkennedy1
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Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping?
      #304405 - 23/08/17 02:40 PM

Fellow Nitro Expressers - after an eight year absence, I am finally headed back to Africa for another plains game hunt! This time, I will be looking to add a gemsbok and wildebeest to my collection. If there is an exceptional wart hog and impala, I may add those too.
Here is a question that has probably been asked hundreds of times, but I'm going to ask it again, as I am interested in everyone's opinion... tipping. What do you suggest as a rule-of-thumb to tip? My friend and I will be hunting for 5 days in the Limpopo region, and harvesting a total of about six animals. Your thoughts? Thanks! Christopher

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DOUBLE or NOTHING

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5061
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: crkennedy1]
      #304406 - 23/08/17 02:58 PM

I am against tipping. However it is well established and helps the locals a bit. I would contact your PH and seek their advice as well.

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crkennedy1
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Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: Rule303]
      #304407 - 23/08/17 03:10 PM

My PH is the guy that I want to tip at the end of my hunt. It's a hunt that I won at an SCI banquet, so he has donated it and his time.

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DOUBLE or NOTHING

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
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Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: crkennedy1]
      #304411 - 23/08/17 07:04 PM

Hi Christopher,

No idea. Haven't hunted for a longer time as you, and as you probably know, tipping does not fit well within the Aussie culture. But maybe some of your fellow American members can contribute an idea. If it is a percentage of daily rates (ick!) probably similar to what it used to be. My guess would be between 5% and 15% of the daily rates, in total, all tips.

Myself, when tipping, I like to see how it goes first. If the trackers work well I like to reward them. If the food is really good, the cooks and waiters etc.

If you win a hunt for free, yes I would give a very good tip. As long as the price of the "extras" is not extraordinary.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Rell
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Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: NitroX]
      #304414 - 23/08/17 07:54 PM

For plains game I generally tip between $50-100 USD a day to the PH. Another $50 a day to the combined staff. Many PHs don't want yountipping staff direct as it tends to cause o few of the guys to disappear for 2-3 days getting laid and going on a bender.

For DG it's really twice that.

I

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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Rule303
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Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: crkennedy1]
      #304426 - 23/08/17 11:45 PM

Quote:

My PH is the guy that I want to tip at the end of my hunt. It's a hunt that I won at an SCI banquet, so he has donated it and his time.



In that case I would tip the PH if he does a good job but I would do a $ amount not a daily % amount. I would never afford an African hunt if I did that.

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: Rule303]
      #304428 - 24/08/17 12:36 AM

Given: A tip or gratuity is never a "fixed" amount, nor is it guaranteed.

I understand an acceptable tip is 10% of daily rate to the PH, so for a 10 day hunt at $400 / day rate, one would give a total tip to the PH of $400 at the end of the trip. For the staff, it would be another $400 divided by the number of staff, so for a camp of 8 staff, each staffer would get $50 each.

On a DG hunt, the percentage would be the same resulting in the dollar amount of tip being higher, e.g. If the daily rate is $1500 instead of $400, then based on 10% of the daily rate, the tip would be $1500 at the end of a 10 day hunt for the PH and $1500 divided by the number of staff, so for a camp of 8, each staffer would get $190 at the end of the 10 days.

In any event, toward the end of your stay, speak with the PH and make sure he is ok with your staff tip plans. He may wish to be with you when you hand out the tips. In my case, I gave the money to the PH and he gathered the staff and counted out each tip and handed each staffer's share of the tip back to me in front of the staff so I could personally put it in each staffer's hand. Remember, it is the PH who must deal with any infighting that inequitable staff tipping may cause, so follow his advice.

Additional small gratuities are also appreciated, whether it be tobacco, chocolate, a new unworn shirt, a box of ammo, etc., but again, ALWAYS check with the PH first.

The tipping adds a bunch of extra cost to the hunt and should be budgeted for as part of the trip. One must be sensitive to the fact that the PH and the support staff rely on tips as part of their income.

Beyond the daily rate, flights, incidental hotels between flight layovers, and trophy shipping associated costs add a bunch more, and then of course the taxidermy fees to round out the fun, so a guided hunt is a very expensive affair all items considered, but the tips are part of that cost.

I too would be very interested in other's views as to the appropriate amount one should tip for an African trip.

One more thought: all tipping in US $......

Edited by Postman (24/08/17 07:48 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: Rule303]
      #304443 - 24/08/17 08:23 AM

Quote:

In that case I would tip the PH if he does a good job but I would do a $ amount not a daily % amount. I would never afford an African hunt if I did that.



Me neither.

I think the tipping amounts vary a lot between nationalies.

Also giving a lump sum to the PH to handover to staff, I would make sure it is handed over in front of me. My first trip to Africa, in Kenya, a game viewing sfari, the cook who was the head guy was given the staff's tips, and he pocketed it all or nearly all himself. All of us felt bad about this so an extra amount was collected and handed out to the loosing staff. I was not happy about that at all.

I like to give other gifts when possible rather than money. It is not the responsibility of a client to pay the incomes of staff when it should be included in the agreed fees at the beginning. I remember one PH/Outfitter refusing to answer how much he paid his black staff in Tanzania. He always used to recommend on AR HUGE tips on these sorts of topics. Thousands of dollars. Why? Because he was probably paying his staff $1 per day ... not bad when they charge $1000 to $2000 a day to pay their slaves less than $50 per day ...

One reason one Zimbabwe outfitter retired to Australia owning seven houses here ...

All this confusion over people needing to know tipping amounts would be so simple, if it was all included in the set price. I remember one client boasting he gets better animals, better areas etc etc because he gives big tips ...

And the bad looks a client gets if they "under-tip" per inflated expectations wouldn't occur. BTW I usually write off an outfitter with such staff for any future hunts if that occurs. It usually occurs only when an outfitter has mostly American clients, and few Europeans and Australians/NZers. See my earlier comment about differences in nationality on tipping.

I don't mind giving nice gifts or some money to hard working staff who are often quite poor. But for me it is not a replacement of their income they should be paid. It is a personal thing as has been mentioned.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: NitroX]
      #304462 - 24/08/17 09:19 PM

There's a big difference between a PH (works harder gets less) & a Outfitter here !

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Charls
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Reged: 05/05/05
Posts: 75
Loc: South Africa
Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: Sarg]
      #304590 - 29/08/17 05:21 PM

Tipping is not a requirement however after a successful hunt many feel the need to do it. I would recommend a flat rate of about a R1000.00 for the PH per week after the hunt and for the staff about the same in total. Give the staff tip to the PH to distribute as he sees fit. He will obviously give the tracker and skinner more than the chef and chalet cleaner. Please SARands, many guys do not know what to do with other currency and gets ripped off at the border posts or pawn shops trying to exchanged it.
Local hunters generally do not tip- only in the case of exceptional trophies, etc.
Hope this helps,
Charls

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Rell
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Reged: 03/12/04
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Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: Charls]
      #304605 - 30/08/17 11:51 AM

So, I'm sure this will not be popular but ...

I tend to tip at the higher end. I hunt with two PHs primarily. Different countries and different game but the same PHs. I find I get preferential treatment to some degree. Usually I get assigned the better hunting blocks, put on better trophies and end up with th e hottest tracks to go after.

It's not fair or just but economics. Repeat client and great tipper leads to being treated very very well. For an extra couple grand my precious time offf is maximized and that is well worth it to me.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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Sarg
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Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: Rell]
      #304608 - 30/08/17 02:51 PM

Quote:

So, I'm sure this will not be popular but ...

I tend to tip at the higher end. I hunt with two PHs primarily. Different countries and different game but the same PHs. I find I get preferential treatment to some degree. Usually I get assigned the better hunting blocks, put on better trophies and end up with th e hottest tracks to go after.

It's not fair or just but economics. Repeat client and great tipper leads to being treated very very well. For an extra couple grand my precious time offf is maximized and that is well worth it to me.



This is indeed a fact !

Many of the best hard working PHs run when Ozzy or Kiwi hunters arrive & many from Euro hunters also !

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: Sarg]
      #304779 - 04/09/17 04:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So, I'm sure this will not be popular but ...

I tend to tip at the higher end. I hunt with two PHs primarily. Different countries and different game but the same PHs. I find I get preferential treatment to some degree. Usually I get assigned the better hunting blocks, put on better trophies and end up with th e hottest tracks to go after.

It's not fair or just but economics. Repeat client and great tipper leads to being treated very very well. For an extra couple grand my precious time offf is maximized and that is well worth it to me.



This is indeed a fact !

Many of the best hard working PHs run when Ozzy or Kiwi hunters arrive & many from Euro hunters also !



I would love to know which outfitters they are.

Not surprised those willing to pay over the top are able to buy better (or larger) trophies for themselves either. Repeat customers are often taken care of. People buying bigger trophies also are lucrative. I remember my first safari when there was live game capture going on, and there were some eland bulls captured with the mob of other game. i was offered one as a "trophy". Said no. Not interested in shooting some captive animal. Hunting is more than about the biggest trophies. If one travels to NZ, ALL of the BIG (ie huge and un-natutral) "trophies" are ALL from tiny pens and tame captive bred "hunting" farms. Probably big tipping going on there as well.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (04/09/17 05:09 PM)

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Sarg
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Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: NitroX]
      #304838 - 05/09/17 12:40 PM

Well back in the 90s Brian Harre would have been selling hunts for "escaped" Red Stags near Deer farms, as bugger all wild Red Stags in those days with antlers with more than 8-10 points & 35in long.

Unlike now where it is possible to take a good to great head of most species in NZ, times have changed greatly in most country's, a lot of good Deer heads appeared in Aussie after Water Valley & others opened to, some giant Red Stags taken in the Wild !

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Rell
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Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: Sarg]
      #304848 - 05/09/17 09:32 PM

It has absolutely nothing to do with canned shooting or put and take hunting. I hunt free range in Cameroon, Mozambique, Zimbabwe and RSA. Indigenous species only.

When I was hunting with Zambezi Delta Safari in Mozambique I hunted at the same time Craig Boddington and Alan Carter where in camp. Talk about being treated like a second class citizen. The hottest areas where " reserved" for them, we Got shuttled around to where ever they did not want to be. I had booked a forest Buffalo hunt and those are so overhunted it was almost impossible to find a hard bossed bull much less a decent trophy. We came across dagga boy tracks twice and was told we could not hunt them because .....

With Crusader Safaris in RSA I know most of the PHs and have hunted with them. I'm sure they try and give everyone a great hunt but repeat customer and generous tipping have led to some great hunts. In Cameroon I had a known PH, great block and prime time. Talk about an unbelievable experience.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: Rell]
      #304924 - 07/09/17 05:37 PM

Quote:

Talk about being treated like a second class citizen. The hottest areas where " reserved" for them, we Got shuttled around to where ever they did not want to be. I had booked a forest Buffalo hunt and those are so overhunted it was almost impossible to find a hard bossed bull much less a decent trophy. We came across dagga boy tracks twice and was told we could not hunt them because .....



And that is the way it goes sometimes.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Headed to South Africa for Plains Game... again! Tipping? [Re: Sarg]
      #304925 - 07/09/17 05:42 PM

Quote:

Well back in the 90s Brian Harre would have been selling hunts for "escaped" Red Stags near Deer farms, as bugger all wild Red Stags in those days with antlers with more than 8-10 points & 35in long.



One does wonder ...

As for Watervalley, when I visited some of the species were way too tame, obviouslyt purchased from somewhere and released. Rusa was one species at the time. Could have taken three nice stags but decided not to. Sambar were not as "wild" as they should be too. Only saw one stag. Country was "wrong" for them anyway. Chital were as wild as they should be. Reds, wrong time of the year when I was there - October - they were in velvet. And as often is, when the boys are in velvet they tend to be less wary.

But the best about WV then was no outfitters or guides needed. All self hunted, the real deal, the best way. Also no tipping required! (back onto topic )

Anyway crkennedy has got some tips on tipping. How complicated it all is. How much easier it would be with the real price named right up front for everyone. No graft or corruption required!



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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