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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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DarylS
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303807 - 07/08/17 12:05 PM

Modern bullets & powders do help with trajectory & killing power, for certain.

In the '06 for instance, a 165gr. starting out at 2,900fps (4 different loads in Horn. manual) with a BC of .447, will do quite well enough over normal hunting ranges.

Friend of mine used a brand new pencil weight stainless laminated M700 with factory Federal 165gr. TSX, for his muley, whitetail, sheep and elk. The elk was the only long shot - 415 laser checked yards. The rest were all under 110yards. None needed more than the first shot. The elk went the furthest thou - a whole shaking 4 steps only and tipped over - dead. He'd been double lunged and the bullet exited, leaving a 1/2" exit hole. The other animals dropped in their tracks, DRT.

The fellow, Shad, had depressed with his new rifle's accuracy of 2 1/2" at 100 meters, with groups stringing as the barrel warmed up. He's a hard working busy contractor with no time for handloading - so he had to shoot factory ammo. I happened to be at the range on his first rifle test- he was not a happy shooter.

I re-bed his rifle for him as Remington had put in about 60pounds forend tip pressure (no wood under the front ring of the action). I had also suggested some ammo he could try as he wanted away from the 180's (Win.. PP's) he'd shot in his old Husky - desiring flatter shooting bullets. After the re-bed, he initially tested Fed 165gr. Fusions and they shot around 3/4" for him at 100 meters so he called me and we met up at the range the next day for further testing. He also picked up another box of Fusion 165's for practice and my suggested Federal 165gr.TSX for hunting. Both loads shot into the same poi at 100 meters.

The factory Feds with the 165TSX, listed just over 2,900fps, seems to me, went 3/8" for a pair of 3 shot groups for me, and he put 5 into 1 1/2" at 200 meters which is 218yards.

Just maybe, the old '06 isn't quite out of date ----- yet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500Boswell
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #303811 - 07/08/17 01:15 PM

A 270 Weatherby mag or a 7mm Weatherby mag

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Postman
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: 500Boswell]
      #303825 - 07/08/17 10:36 PM

Well, these types of discussions are rather academic in my humble view. There are many calibers that will do the job if the shooter understands and can work effectively with the external ballistics at hand. Coupled with sufficient application of terminal ballistics/bullet type and construction suitable for the game at hand and we have a winner!

There are no flies on the .270, nor are there any flies on the various 6.5 or .30+ caliber selections such as the .30-378, etc.

For me, I choose the rifle first..... reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, weight. I'll have to carry that damn thing around for a looooong time between shots so I need to get along with it.

As a secondary consideration, I will look at the caliber and decide in broad terms, ie, heavy slow or light fast..... close or far targets.... Keith vs O'Connor......... beyond these two broad choices, I don't over analyze the caliber...... they're all so damn close and capable, the discussion gets silly.

Lighter faster with reasonable BC will reach out and touch 'em. Add suitable weight and bullet construction for the size of game intended, and get out and practice 'till you're proficient in hitting the aiming point and you've got a winner!!!



Edited by Postman (07/08/17 10:44 PM)

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ducmarc
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Postman]
      #304028 - 14/08/17 11:18 AM

if u want a real fire storm on long range go over to long range hunter forum .used to hang out there when i was all about black bear.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Postman]
      #304050 - 14/08/17 10:17 PM

Quote:

Well, these types of discussions are rather academic in my humble view. There are many calibers that will do the job if the shooter understands and can work effectively with the external ballistics at hand. Coupled with sufficient application of terminal ballistics/bullet type and construction suitable for the game at hand and we have a winner!

There are no flies on the .270, nor are there any flies on the various 6.5 or .30+ caliber selections such as the .30-378, etc.

For me, I choose the rifle first..... reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, weight. I'll have to carry that damn thing around for a looooong time between shots so I need to get along with it.

As a secondary consideration, I will look at the caliber and decide in broad terms, ie, heavy slow or light fast..... close or far targets.... Keith vs O'Connor......... beyond these two broad choices, I don't over analyze the caliber...... they're all so damn close and capable, the discussion gets silly.

Lighter faster with reasonable BC will reach out and touch 'em. Add suitable weight and bullet construction for the size of game intended, and get out and practice 'till you're proficient in hitting the aiming point and you've got a winner!!!





Agree 100%...especially with the weight issue..you carry that thing around at 12-14,000 feet for a week or more, it starts to add up, IMHO..

As to caliber, also agree for the most part..unless you are shooting over 600 yards or more, dont think it makes that much of a difference..

Makes for an interesting conversation and always fun to hear others perspective..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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ducmarc
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #304101 - 16/08/17 11:12 AM

yes Ripp fun talk and we have to talk about something...

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Rule303
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #304132 - 17/08/17 07:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Well, these types of discussions are rather academic in my humble view. There are many calibers that will do the job if the shooter understands and can work effectively with the external ballistics at hand. Coupled with sufficient application of terminal ballistics/bullet type and construction suitable for the game at hand and we have a winner!

There are no flies on the .270, nor are there any flies on the various 6.5 or .30+ caliber selections such as the .30-378, etc.

For me, I choose the rifle first..... reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, weight. I'll have to carry that damn thing around for a looooong time between shots so I need to get along with it.

As a secondary consideration, I will look at the caliber and decide in broad terms, ie, heavy slow or light fast..... close or far targets.... Keith vs O'Connor......... beyond these two broad choices, I don't over analyze the caliber...... they're all so damn close and capable, the discussion gets silly.

Lighter faster with reasonable BC will reach out and touch 'em. Add suitable weight and bullet construction for the size of game intended, and get out and practice 'till you're proficient in hitting the aiming point and you've got a winner!!!





Agree 100%...especially with the weight issue..you carry that thing around at 12-14,000 feet for a week or more, it starts to add up, IMHO..

As to caliber, also agree for the most part..unless you are shooting over 600 yards or more, dont think it makes that much of a difference..

Makes for an interesting conversation and always fun to hear others perspective..

Ripp



12 to 14,000 ft and walking is crazy talk That's twice as high as anything found down here. Would not have mind doing that once.

Serious question Ripp. At those altitudes did you have to re sight the rifle for elevation?

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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #304144 - 17/08/17 03:06 PM

Quote:



Agree 100%...especially with the weight issue..you carry that thing around at 12-14,000 feet for a week or more, it starts to add up, IMHO..
Ripp



This climbing thing is not something I will EVER have to do- again. A 10 pound rifle is just about right for where I hunt - mind you, it will never be for Stone nor Dall sheep - Tahr or Ibex for that matter.

My 12 1/2 pound Sharps, is a bit heavy nowadays, but shoots fine at the range.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Rule303]
      #304148 - 17/08/17 09:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Well, these types of discussions are rather academic in my humble view. There are many calibers that will do the job if the shooter understands and can work effectively with the external ballistics at hand. Coupled with sufficient application of terminal ballistics/bullet type and construction suitable for the game at hand and we have a winner!

There are no flies on the .270, nor are there any flies on the various 6.5 or .30+ caliber selections such as the .30-378, etc.

For me, I choose the rifle first..... reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, weight. I'll have to carry that damn thing around for a looooong time between shots so I need to get along with it.

As a secondary consideration, I will look at the caliber and decide in broad terms, ie, heavy slow or light fast..... close or far targets.... Keith vs O'Connor......... beyond these two broad choices, I don't over analyze the caliber...... they're all so damn close and capable, the discussion gets silly.

Lighter faster with reasonable BC will reach out and touch 'em. Add suitable weight and bullet construction for the size of game intended, and get out and practice 'till you're proficient in hitting the aiming point and you've got a winner!!!





Agree 100%...especially with the weight issue..you carry that thing around at 12-14,000 feet for a week or more, it starts to add up, IMHO..

As to caliber, also agree for the most part..unless you are shooting over 600 yards or more, dont think it makes that much of a difference..

Makes for an interesting conversation and always fun to hear others perspective..

Ripp



12 to 14,000 ft and walking is crazy talk That's twice as high as anything found down here. Would not have mind doing that once.

Serious question Ripp. At those altitudes did you have to re sight the rifle for elevation?



YES, the higher elevation offers thinner air..so the bullet will typically hit a bit higher..it really doesn't matter as I always shoot my rifle to check its zero when I get to camp to make sure it hasn't been knocked off during the flight/travel to the location..I recalibrate the scope and have the software on my phone to tell me where it should be hitting at 100 and 200 --also I alway check the approx. elevation of where I will be hunting and set it for that elevation before I leave..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #304186 - 18/08/17 01:30 PM

Ripp,

Thanks for the information.

Greg

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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Postman]
      #325978 - 18/03/19 04:15 AM

Quote:

Well, these types of discussions are rather academic in my humble view. There are many calibers that will do the job if the shooter understands and can work effectively with the external ballistics at hand. Coupled with sufficient application of terminal ballistics/bullet type and construction suitable for the game at hand and we have a winner!

There are no flies on the .270, nor are there any flies on the various 6.5 or .30+ caliber selections such as the .30-378, etc.

For me, I choose the rifle first..... reliability, ergonomics, accuracy, weight. I'll have to carry that damn thing around for a looooong time between shots so I need to get along with it.

As a secondary consideration, I will look at the caliber and decide in broad terms, ie, heavy slow or light fast..... close or far targets.... Keith vs O'Connor......... beyond these two broad choices, I don't over analyze the caliber...... they're all so damn close and capable, the discussion gets silly.

Lighter faster with reasonable BC will reach out and touch 'em. Add suitable weight and bullet construction for the size of game intended, and get out and practice 'till you're proficient in hitting the aiming point and you've got a winner!!!





Found this old post from days gone by.. peaked my interest in that I have done a couple more higher elevation hunts since.. thus far, my caliber of choice has been the 280AI .. using 140gr Nosler Accubonds.. its hell on wheels for the sheep/goat species... Has been very effective for long ranges as well as close.. really like that caliber for this type of hunting..

Built another lightweight last year..was too late to get a load worked up for it and to really use it..but,IF, I were to go for Marco Polo--will take it.. its in 28 Nosler.. loaded with 175gr bullets its still sending them at 3150fps .. very high bc bullets..

Good advice above...which is why I "quoted" it..

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Ripp]
      #325981 - 18/03/19 04:52 AM

3,150 with 175's is smoking!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: DarylS]
      #325997 - 18/03/19 01:43 PM

Quote:

3,150 with 175's is smoking!



Agree--surprised myself--and really no signs of pressure..that was chronographed using Swift Scirocco's I loaded for elk..will load something with a higher BC for long range use on sheep/goat species..

--------------------
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Homer
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: DarylS]
      #326055 - 19/03/19 01:07 PM

Quote:

3,150 with 175's is smoking!


+1 Daryl & Ripp.

Whilst I have some experience (probably 5 weeks in total, hunting Alpine Game in NZ (Tahr & Chammy/Chamois), I came to a few conclusions.
The chambering and barrel length required, is dependant on animal size/weight (obviously), and the shooting distances, you might expect.
The other conclusion I worked out a long time ago, was there is no such thing as over kill!

Hope that helps

D'oh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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rigbymauser
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: Homer]
      #326068 - 19/03/19 11:23 PM

I must say the .270wea is THE caliber for me. 180 grain bullets @ +3000 ft/sec or 150grain @ 3280 ft/sec. I haven`t shot ibex but if the .270wea works on kudu, gemsbok etc it works on ibex.

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maral
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: rigbymauser]
      #326396 - 25/03/19 07:09 PM

"The mountain rifle" for me, would be a Kipplauf from Herbert Scheiring in 7x75R SE Von Hofe. Light, accurate, takedown, but unfortunally has a "bespoke price".

Å more realistic choice would be a Blaser K95 in 270WBY or 6,5x65R RWS

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rigbymauser
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: maral]
      #326403 - 25/03/19 11:47 PM

Quote:

"The mountain rifle" for me, would be a Kipplauf from Herbert Scheiring in 7x75R SE Von Hofe. Light, accurate, takedown, but unfortunally has a "bespoke price".

Å more realistic choice would be a Blaser K95 in 270WBY or 6,5x65R RWS



Blaser K77 in 6,5x68R or 7x75R Vom Hofe

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008
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: rigbymauser]
      #326408 - 26/03/19 12:51 AM

My mountain gun is also a Rifles inc in 300 win mag, probably a bit much for sheep but is a great all around er imo. Easy to carry, very accurate, vastly forgiving.

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DarylS
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: 008]
      #326414 - 26/03/19 03:57 AM

I'm past climbing, but I hunt in the mountains - I guess this
area has mountains. Valleys of moose at any rate. Never
hunted any sheep or goats, but a lighter rifle in one of the
accurate fast twist 6.5's would be my choice with longer,
heavier 140gr. high BC bullets, A-max, ELD or whatever.
The Nosler 6.5 version comes to mind.
With tougher bullets it would also work well on moose and elk.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: Perfect caliber/rifle for hunting high mtn game-sheep/ibex [Re: DarylS]
      #326448 - 26/03/19 06:11 PM

Quote:

I'm past climbing, but I hunt in the mountains - I guess this
area has mountains. Valleys of moose at any rate. Never
hunted any sheep or goats, but a lighter rifle in one of the
accurate fast twist 6.5's would be my choice with longer,
heavier 140gr. high BC bullets, A-max, ELD or whatever.
The Nosler 6.5 version comes to mind.
With tougher bullets it would also work well on moose and elk.



Agree-- a nice 6.5 for most would be perfect...good selection of bullets, great BC ..plenty of horsepower...

As stated earlier, for most shots out to 4-500 yards, not sure it makes much difference.. they are all very close.. really like my little 280AI.. surprising how it drops game..even out there to 600yds...with the little 140gr Accubonds..


Quote:

My mountain gun is also a Rifles inc in 300 win mag, probably a bit much for sheep but is a great all around er imo. Easy to carry, very accurate, vastly forgiving.



Rifles Inc are great guns... very light and very accurate... that 300 Win is a great caliber..IMHO, perfect for pretty much anything non-dangerous game related... with plenty of energy way, way out there...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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