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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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ColoradoMatt1
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Reged: 01/01/14
Posts: 129
Loc: Northern Colorado

Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one?
#300529 - 20/05/17 03:17 AM

I've read that Vickers made Mauser 98 rifles in 404 Jeffery in the olden days. Supposedly several African countries purchased them for their game departments. While these rifles are mentioned in several article on the 404 Jeff, I've never seen a picture of one, or heard of anyone active on the gun boards I haunt owning one. Anyone out there own one, or have pics of one? I would love to see one of these old war horses. Does anyone have more detailed info about their history? I assume that they were a less expensive alternative to W.J. Jeffery's offerings.

There is an old 404 Jeff for sale at Steve Barnett's right now. It has no maker name on it anywhere. I think the barrel may have either been replace or set back at one point, because the sides of the front ring look like they were put in an unpadded vice and the short barrel shank looks like someone used a pipe wrench on it. It's a pretty cool old rifle. Thanks for any info you might have.

I have seen other British makers, such as Cogswell and Harrison, with barrels made by Vickers. I am starting to believe that Vickers may not have actually made complete Mauser rifles in 404, and that someone simply assumed that they did based on the barrel makers stamp. Gun writers (and Internet gun board members, such as myself) are notorious for repeating erroneous information of which they have no first hand knowledge. I hope that someone can prove this theory incorrect, as I want to see one of these rifles! Thanks

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Igorrock
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: ColoradoMatt1]
#300530 - 20/05/17 03:39 AM

This one could be: http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-2354-manton-and-co-type-a-square-bridge-mauser-rifle-46854/

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ColoradoMatt1
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: Igorrock]
#300531 - 20/05/17 03:49 AM

Quote:

This one could be:

That is an Oberndorf Magnum action "Type A" sporter retailed through Manton in India. That's a fine and beautiful rifle, but not a Vickers, for sure. If the the Vickers 404's actually exist, they would likely look quite Spartan, using an opened up standard length 98 action and standard depth magazines. They would probably look a lot like the early WJ Jeffery made rifles. Vickers barrels were available on Oberndorf mausers on special order. The Type A was made for the British market, so a Vickers barrel makes some sense.

Edited by ColoradoMatt1 (20/05/17 03:55 AM)

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justcurious
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Reged: 17/03/10
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: ColoradoMatt1]
#300532 - 20/05/17 03:57 AM

If I see the position of the crossbolt correct, I would say it is not a magnum action .

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ColoradoMatt1
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: justcurious]
#300534 - 20/05/17 04:33 AM

Quote:

If I see the position of the crossbolt correct, I would say it is not a magnum action .

I see your point, and have too agree. The stock appears to have been made foe a giraffe!, as the drop in the but is enormous. Oberndorf Mauser did not make 404's on standard length actions, but I've seen a couple of 10.75x68 rifles that were converted to 404. Oberndorf 10.75x68's did not have drop belly magazines, and this one may be drop belly. Whatever the case, that Manton rifle was likely not made by Vickers.

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MikeRowe
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: ColoradoMatt1]
#300539 - 20/05/17 08:21 AM

I have only seen one Vickers 404 rifle. It was built on a P14 action.
Although a very plain working rifle, it was one of the quickest and smoothest
handling heavies I've ever shouldered.

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Huvius
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: MikeRowe]
#300546 - 20/05/17 09:14 AM

I swear I have seen something on a Vickers 404 sometime in the last few years. Will keep a lookout.

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ColoradoMatt1
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: MikeRowe]
#300548 - 20/05/17 10:12 AM

Quote:

I have only seen one Vickers 404 rifle. It was built on a P14 action.
Although a very plain working rifle, it was one of the quickest and smoothest
handling heavies I've ever shouldered.

An internet search revealed Mauser and P14 404 Jeff rifles with vickers barrels, the rifles were put together by different outfits like Cogswell and Harrison, etc.

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eagle27
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: MikeRowe]
#300552 - 20/05/17 11:06 AM

Quote:

I have only seen one Vickers 404 rifle. It was built on a P14 action.
Although a very plain working rifle, it was one of the quickest and smoothest
handling heavies I've ever shouldered.

I would be inclined to agree that genuine Vickers 404 rifles, not just a Mauser action of any sort with a Vickers barrel, were most likely P14s. To properly open up a standard Military M98 for the 404 cartridge is a reasonable undertaking and would not be the type of work horse rifle that anyone would make to equip the African game departments with. The P14 was cheap and readily available and would have been the easiest conversion to a 404 back in those days. I stand to be corrected if someone can show us a genuine Vickers made Mauser rifle.

There was an earlier discussion on the Vickers Armstrong 404

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....amp;Search=true

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lancaster
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: eagle27]
#300580 - 21/05/17 01:09 AM

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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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ColoradoMatt1
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: lancaster]
#300613 - 21/05/17 11:56 AM

Lancaster, Wow! Thank you, thank you, than you! The brochure sketch and the picture from Julia's have different barrel contours. I wonder if Vickers ordered barreled actions from Mauser and added their own magazine and stock? They certainly wouldn't be the first outfit to do that!

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Igorrock
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: ColoradoMatt1]
#300616 - 21/05/17 12:35 PM

Even the front sight differs.

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lancaster
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: Igorrock]
#300623 - 21/05/17 07:22 PM

I would think they order the receiver with magazine and add barrel and stock. the action was the heart and making barrels and stock would be much simpler for vickers.
believe this was just a way to find some work after the great war when stocks on military guns were so high it last to the summer of 1940.
you wonder this rifle is so rare today because a big firm like vickers was probably able to make this rifle in a great ammount for a good price with the machine park they had.

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.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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ColoradoMatt1
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Re: Anyone have pics of Vickers Mauser 404 Jeff, or own one? [Re: lancaster]
#300646 - 22/05/17 08:18 AM

If that Julia rifle is a Vickers, I would think that they ordered a barreled action from Mauser and then added a stock and their provenance. The barrel and action is pure Type A. Mauser made complete rifles for Rigby, to Rigby's spec, in the early days. This is a fact. It would not surprise me if Mauser made the entire rifle for Vickers, but I think it more likely that Mauser just made the barreled action.

The sketch in the Vickers advertisement doesn't exactly match the Julia rifle, but this could be just because the artist didn't make an effort to exactly copy the rifles details. We may never know for sure.

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