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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5313
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: AR2201]
      #37247 - 12/09/05 01:40 AM

AR2201,

My most recent hunt was last Monday, September 5, for squirrels using a .22LR. Not DG, but challenging and fun nonetheless.

My most recent big game hunt was for black bears in British Columbia in May 2005, using a DR chambered in .300 Win. Mag. I was lucky enough to fill both my tags. Not extremely DG, but more "D" than squirrels or deer.

Here's the rifle:

Curl's .300 Win. Mag, by Josef Winkler


You will notice that my rifle violates many of the "rules" expressed on this forum: magnum cartridge; rimless extraction; modern caliber; non-English origin; etc. You can find prior posts where I have addressed these issues (dogmas?).


Here are the results:

Curl's black bear

Curl's cinnamon bear (and a big "shit eating" grin)

By the way, I was surfing around this morning and saw that William Larkin Moore Co. has a Blaser with two sets of barrels in .470NE and 9.3x74R priced at $10,900.00.

Look under "Used European" at this link.

I have no interest in the Blaser, but some do. It's just not my cup of tea. However, this sounds like a combo you might make use of.

Now let me state my disclaimer: I am not associated with William Larkin Moore Co., nor will I profit if you or anyone should buy that rifle. I have bought two shotguns from them in the past and have found them to be most accommodating.

Does the Blaser have adjustable regulation?

What DR's are you currently using? You clearly are an experimenter, as am I. I would be interested to know your success in getting a DR to shoot more than one weight of bullet to proper regulation, without adjustment. Many members have reported good success at this endeavor, but my results have been largely negative.

Best regards,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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iwantadouble
.300 member


Reged: 06/06/05
Posts: 104
Loc: Gallatin County, Montana
Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #37261 - 12/09/05 06:58 AM

I did not mean to get everyone upset. The .450 #2 idea was more a brainstorm than anything. Just to see if anyone thought it possible, not to say I am going to go out buy one and cut it open and haphazardly take it to the range and start blasting with no attention paid to proofing or general safety. By the responses I take it as a definate no go.

As a side note, the recoil does not bother me. In fact, I welcome every bit of recoil I could possibly get. I have a bad back (7 compressed vertebrae, a fusion, and surgeons wondering how I'm even alive, much less mobile in all 4 corners of my extremities), and I've found that the only "cure" for back pain is heavy recoil. The more recoil, the longer I can go pain free. Sure, my shoulder is sore afterwards, but a sore shoulder is nothing like a droning, stiff, aching back. To the note of shooting a 500 grain bullet out of a 7.5lb rifle, at 2100fps, I say bring it on, at least once. If I can go a week with out a backache from it, I'll do it again. The only qualm I have with the said setup would be it holding together while I am squeezing the trigger(s). And this is where we return the Baikal/Spartan and the rechamber idea and the obvious consensus that, "No, it will not hold up." To which I follow with the notion is past, buried and dead in the water.

Maybe at some point Spartan sales will prompt Baikal to produce the rifle in more calibers, and hopefully one that appeals to me. Until then, I sit on the sidelines watching and waiting.

Sorry again.

--------------------
500 is a nice round number, either followed by "Nitro Express" or by "cubic inch displacement".

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: iwantadouble]
      #37262 - 12/09/05 07:26 AM


iwantadouble

The problem is that in your country (if you are talking Montana USA),
I have seen no end of 375 2 1/2" Double Rifles (Cogswell & Harrison,
Holland & Holland) rechamered to 375 Flanged Magnum because of
the higher resale value - and this seems to be done by people who don't
know what they are doing and not reproofing the gun.

Why do Holland's mostly build 375 Flanged Magnum guns on the
reinforced action - for the reason that it is a more powerful cartridge.

That's not to say you can't get away with it but the guns come off the face.

Anyway, no harm in asking.

500 Nitro

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AR2201
.275 member


Reged: 31/08/05
Posts: 57
Loc: Oz
Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #37357 - 14/09/05 01:19 AM

500 Nitro

While I have burnt more than my fair share of powder in bolt guns I have exactly nil experience with doubles, something I am very close to correcting.

I am attempting to gauge how delicate they actually are and am encouraged by your experiences with getting the 320gn Woodleighs to regulate in 285gn regulated barrel sets as my first chioce is for a 9.3x74R.

Technical question, do you know how much freebore these 9.3x74R's come with?

I have been eyeing off a Merkel but that's hit a wall (I sent them some queries (via Granite Arms in VIC), but, no response as yet and it has been a while, if they are not interested then neither am I).

I have also been eyeing off the Pedersoli, it has a "solid rib" whatever that means. I am taking odds with myself that drilling and mounting a weaver rail on a "solid rib" won't compromise regulation, but what do I know ......

Another point for the Spartan it comes with a provision for sight mounting, weird one, but, one none the less.

Any anecdotes on the impact (preferably lack thereof) of installing mount bases on regulation? (A weaver rail will be going on what ever I get)

AR2201
The sleep of reason breeds monsters

PS. I am at one with not getting a piece of history (sigh), power tools and classics do not mix. I have consoled myself with the equation 1 Classic = more than one modern (to which I exhibit no such qualm).

PPS. my preference is for a SxS, but, a Tikka U/O in 9.3x74R is not out of consideration. Alas, these are out of production so I'll waste no time waiting for Godot on that one.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: AR2201]
      #37373 - 14/09/05 03:34 AM


AR2001,

One of my 500 Nitro doubles has had a scope mount base fitted to the rib
(it came with an Aimpoint scope) and this hasn't affected the regulation.
- it's not something I would do but I bought it like that.

A mate who owns a Berretta 9.3 x 74 has had NON factory scope mounts
added by one of our better gunsmiths and they work fine and haven't affected
regulation.

Technical question, do you know how much freebore these 9.3x74R's come with?
NO, I don't and I don't worry about these things.

Re ""I have also been eyeing off the Pedersoli, it has a "solid rib" whatever that means. I am taking odds with
myself that drilling and mounting a weaver rail on a "solid rib" won't compromise regulation, but what do
I know ......"

I don't know either - a mate has a Pedersoli but I've only seen it once.

I can ask him what he thinks of it if you like ?

500 Nitro

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #39886 - 28/10/05 12:36 AM

AR2201

While looking for a certain post, I just re read a few posts of
yours over many of the forums and it seems to me that it doesn't
matter what a manufacturer puts out as a product, you want to
change / modify it, whether it be chambering, regulation, etc etc.

AND then if it has a feature that you don't like, your criticise it.

Eg from Post on Blasers
"How did you find the "verandah" overhanging the chambers?

That in particular, strikes me as both unnecessary and just plain silly,
it must get in the road of loading and unloading, what were they thinking?"

Couple of things:-
1. In view of the fact that you don't currently own and haven't owned
a SxS DR, then I can't see how you can make this comment when you
haven't had the experience of using them. (Some English guns have Large
Dolls heads so all you do is modify your loading style)

2. Couldn't your comment of "as both unnecessary and just plain silly"
be applied just as easily to your "Regulating Adjustment device" that you
go on about ? After all, if a gun is regulated correctly (which most modern
doubles are), then why the need to reregulate it ? (And don't say to get
different bullet weights shooting to the same point of impact as it is easily
done by modifying the amount of powder).

3. And going back to "you want to change / modify it, whether
it be chambering, regulation, etc etc." I think you are starting to
border on the VERY VERY DANGEROUS.
ie
- Pedersoli Post "These rechambers (45-100, 45-120) require minimal metal t
o be shaved off aaaand if it doesn't cut it you still have the 450 No.2 NE option
in the wings, nothing lost.
- Spartan Forum - rechambering to something well beyond what I think is safe.


You talk about Pressures (Pedersoli Post) and go into Long Winded explanations
about how little difference this or that change would make, but you base your decision of
data Extrapolated from one cartridge to another without ANY scientific basis, proof
or pressure data.


So in summary, I think you are dangerous so I am ever on a range near you please
identify yourself so I can move at least 200 yards away as I think you will end up
blowing up a gun and injuring yourself or maybe even and innocent bystander.


500 Nitro

Also posted on Pedersoli forum

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Aussies - who is interested in a Spartan? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #39953 - 28/10/05 03:19 PM

Gentlemen,

I was at the Gander Mountain store in Kenosha Wisconsin today and saw some of the new Spartan double shotguns that they had recently received. They told me that they expected the double rifles by December, in my opinion a wrong time to get them as deer season ends by then, though they may have had other problems that caused the delay.

The guns were offered for $ 479 and were extremely well finished for the price though the barrels looked very heavy and were extremely short, just about 24 inches, I think. They were definitely better finished than the Remington pump guns and autoloaders on the neighbouring rack at the store. They have both the Spartan as well as the Baikal name stamped on them and even the cheap beech wood stocks did not look bad. These may turn out to be good cheap guns to use without worrying about putting scratches into them or marring the blue. I may buy a rifle in 45-70 when it is out. The Russians offer the guns both in cheap beech stocks as well as high grade guns with walnut, but the Gander people were certain that only the base models were going to be offered in the USA. If there is a demand for the higher grade guns in Australia they may offer the walnut stocked model, which is what the Artemida looks like to me, though I am no expert...

From what I remember MacNaughton has had considerable experience with these guns in England and he endorses their great strength though, of course, as several members have rightly pointed out, it would be silly to compare these guns with a British best gun. The $ 479 price indicates what you could expect, though, from what I saw, it may surprise those who are used to current American factory guns very positively.

Best wishes and good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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