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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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twobobbwana
.333 member


Reged: 25/11/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: 93x64mm]
      #333242 - 09/10/19 12:08 PM

Transvaal, Thank you for posting your project. You don't get to see much about "shoe lump" builds, though Alex Beer did post one at one stage.

Like your idea about your intercepting sear. Great "evolution" of that Brno lock.

Matabele thanks for your input on the draw insert I'd read Vic Venter's writing about them but never seen one.

Waidmannsheill could the wire cutter be used to cut the slot in the action as well as cutting the radius on the draw insert ???

Without access to a wire cutter might the draw insert be made via holding (horizontally) in a jig on your rotary table and machining the radius until it's ready to fit ??? Perhaps with a setup like that you could make a set of inserts, gradually increasing in thickness (radius) so that the gun could be more quickly rebuilt as it went "off face".

This is a fantastic topic and helps to demistify some of the processes involved in producing a double rifle. Thanks to all you gents for sharing your knowledge. It will certainly be interesting to see later technology like cnc applied to these processes, making "kits of parts" so that they can be hand fitted.............though fitting with smoke and file to arrive at a product worth owning is a source of great satisfaction.

Love the conversation and the exchanging of knowledge/ideas without the, ever too present, pissing competition that these sites seem to evoke.

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transvaal
.300 member


Reged: 19/01/13
Posts: 131
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: twobobbwana]
      #333245 - 09/10/19 01:01 PM

Matabele moved away to England several years ago (moved from his lovely Southern Africa) and now works for one of the English big 3 London gunmakers (H&H,Purdey & Boss). He will become the master gunmakers trained the English way that we never were. I have not heard from him in months and just after I write this I am going to send him an email.

Is Alex Beer alive and well in Tasmania? I only went over there a couple of times nearly 20 years ago, but I thought it was a very very lovely place and still pristine. I am glad you Australians do not let others trash your country.

Kindest Regards

Edited by transvaal (09/10/19 01:02 PM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: transvaal]
      #333252 - 09/10/19 03:56 PM

Making plans to visit Tasmania next March. Hmmmmmmmmm.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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ruffcountry
.300 member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 210
Loc: usa
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: DarylS]
      #336129 - 04/01/20 12:34 PM

fantastic . thank you very much for posting

--------------------
Double Rifle Shooters Society

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Chavez
.224 member


Reged: 31/10/13
Posts: 25
Loc: Kentucky
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: Matabele]
      #336263 - 07/01/20 04:09 AM

Thank you very much for taking time to post this , it has been very helpful to me for building my first DR , the silver brazing has been a little scary , conserened about warping, so I have been practicing on some scrap parts for a while with varying degrees of success, I thing getting a ring torch well very helpful.

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Rhodes
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: NQ, Australia
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: Chavez]
      #337379 - 03/02/20 06:28 PM


I was hoping Transvaal would have continued on with his original plans to build a second barrel set in 375 H&H FL Mag. It would make a fine pairing with the excellent work he's done so far.

Maybe with a little encouragement he might find the time to continue with the project.

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transvaal
.300 member


Reged: 19/01/13
Posts: 131
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: Rhodes]
      #337394 - 04/02/20 05:07 AM

Quote:


I was hoping Transvaal would have continued on with his original plans to build a second barrel set in 375 H&H FL Mag. It would make a fine pairing with the excellent work he's done so far.

Maybe with a little encouragement he might find the time to continue with the project.



Dear Rhodes;

I am no longer able to build another set of shoe lump barrels as I sold my shop equipment which consisted of a vertical mill, a horizontal mill, a 10" swing long bed lathe and all of the tooling including my rotary indexer(which is a must to mount on the milling machine table to build shoe lump barrels). I retained a smaller lathe and my engraving equipment and microscope.

When I bought all the mills and lathe above, I had to disassemble them and bring them into my basement workshop piece by piece. You can imagine, I am sure how much difficulty it is for one person considerably past retirement age to remove the table, knee, the top spindle and motor from a vertical mill (the knee alone weighs several hundred pounds) move them all though a tiny basement door into the shop and then reassemble everything. Even more difficult was moving the milling main base through that tiny door. My vertical mill weighted less than a ton assembled, but still very heavy. I am fortunate to own a small 40 year old farm tractor which helped greatly to move the parts of the mills and lathe across the property and down and around the trees to the lower basement level of our house. As I am at advanced age I decided that my daughter(my only heir) would not be able to move or have moved all my shop equipment from the basement after I die, and therefore I decided to sell the equipment and move it out of the basement and reassemble it all--which took me more than a month or so.

The main reason that I posted how to build shoe lump barrels on this site was to help others who might decided to build a set. I hope that some of you will carry on the work. Make certain that you practice on a mock-up barrel and shoe lump set to learn how to braze the barrels to the lump securely.

I traveled down to Australia a number of times in the 1990's and 2000's on business. I was impressed how you lads there have such wonderful workshops out in your "sheds" behind your homes and even more impressed in how that you can take on any sort or task and complete straight away. I remember going into a home work shop shed in 1991 over in the Latrobe valley of a man who was changing the drivers controls side of a 1960's Chevrolet Corvette from Left side to Right side and fabricating most of what he needed for this task--I was amazed at his work.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2443
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: transvaal]
      #337398 - 04/02/20 06:57 AM

Stephen, that is very kind of you to say about us here in Australia, we always try our best.

It is a pity that you had to go down the road that you did but I understand your concerns, I often think the same thing about all my machinery and I have significantly more than you. Hopefully my son will grow up to love engineering as much as I do.

Great post by the way, very nice machine work and some clever ideas.

Matt.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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transvaal
.300 member


Reged: 19/01/13
Posts: 131
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #337409 - 04/02/20 11:22 AM

Quote:

Stephen, that is very kind of you to say about us here in Australia, we always try our best.

It is a pity that you had to go down the road that you did but I understand your concerns, I often think the same thing about all my machinery and I have significantly more than you. Hopefully my son will grow up to love engineering as much as I do.

Great post by the way, very nice machine work and some clever ideas.

Matt.



I see that you live in or near Melbourne. I think that St. Kilda Street in Melbourne is one of the most lovely large city streets I have seen.

Kindest Regards;
Stephen Howell

Edited by transvaal (04/02/20 11:30 AM)

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Rhodes
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: NQ, Australia
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: transvaal]
      #337459 - 05/02/20 03:54 PM


Hi Transvaal,

Thanks for your reply. No need to explain your situation. You do great work and obviously enjoy what you do. I was merely posting in the hope that you were in a position to carry on with your passion.

Thank you again for sharing your work.

Best regards
Rhodes

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Chavez
.224 member


Reged: 31/10/13
Posts: 25
Loc: Kentucky
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: transvaal]
      #337482 - 06/02/20 12:00 AM

I'm attempting to build a .400 Jeffery on the same type action you used ,mine is a 1957 -49 Brno , I have about the same tools you used as well , I would like to ask you a couple questions if you don't mind ,
Did you turn the chamber end of the barrels to 1 inch before you cut the relief ?
Did you have any trouble getting the hook pin out of the action ?
Is 45 % silver ok for the brazing , ? I have a forge but I think I'm going to build a ring torch.
Thanks again for taking the time to post the information and pictures of your rifle , it motivated me to get started again on my project.

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transvaal
.300 member


Reged: 19/01/13
Posts: 131
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: Chavez]
      #337509 - 06/02/20 10:22 AM

Chavez;

Yes, I turned the chamber end to 1 inch in diameter. Note: The cutting of the relief depth is for the barrels to seat down onto the shoe lump platform rounded slots where, after seating and brazing the center of the barrel chamber end will be at the dead center of the firing pin holes when the barrels are closed. Therefore the fitting of the shoe lump to the action face and action flats and hinge pin ("jointed") must be done prior to the barrel brazing. The thickness of the shoe lump platform also has to be calculated to ensure the centering of the barrel chambers to the firing pins.

No, I did not have problems removing the hinge pin from the action.

A ring torch or similar is prudent. Go to YouTube and watch the Verney-Carron video and watch how they braze the barrels to their shoe lumps.

That amount of silver is too low for me to consider using. Use something like Silvaloy 355. A silver braze that flows in the temp range of 1250-1275 degrees F with 55 to 60% silver. No cadmium.

Regards;


Edited by transvaal (06/02/20 10:45 AM)

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Chavez
.224 member


Reged: 31/10/13
Posts: 25
Loc: Kentucky
Re: Building, regulating & engraving a DR with shoe lump barrels [Re: transvaal]
      #337514 - 06/02/20 03:52 PM

Thank you for the reply, it will be a big help to me and I'm sure others as well .

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