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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns
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500Boswell
.400 member


Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland
410 reloaders ?
      #292232 - 18/12/16 02:03 PM

Hello Gents,
Is there any 410 shotgun shooters here who reload ? ive had a look on the net and havent found a whole lot of Equipment for them ,my father has a Spanish Marixa Eibar Double which he uses for ''wriggling'' pests ,and i wanted to use up a Bottle of shot i have had for years,with the high cost of new ammo , they are a fun gun to use [which i would like to use more often on other aerial pests] ,thanks for any suggestions
Cheers

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Postman
.375 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #292242 - 18/12/16 10:23 PM

My cousin reloads for .410. He uses 9.3x74 brass trimmed appropriately instead of plastic hulls. I don't have a lot of detail around his antics, but every time he sees me, he does apologize for ruining/consuming hard to find expensive brass for making shot shells.

MEC is the only manufacturer of shot shell presses that we see around these parts. Not too many folk reload shells anymore because the cost of factory 12 gauge shells come in at similar price points to reloaded shells. Some do reload for harder to find pricey sub gauges such as 16 or 28 gauge, but it comes down to how much volume one shoots. Around here, .410 is a very popular grouse gauge but other than my cousin, I've never met anyone else that actually reloads it. Volume shooting really drives the economics of reloading, typically the hallmark of 12 gauge for clays or waterfowl shooting.

Edited by Postman (20/12/16 12:46 AM)

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Al333
.333 member


Reged: 24/02/13
Posts: 287
Loc: B.C. Canada
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: Postman]
      #292253 - 19/12/16 02:49 AM

I believe that you can also make .410 shells out of 444 marlin. Never tried it myself, but I do know a fellow that reloads them that way. Al

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: Al333]
      #292263 - 19/12/16 06:10 AM

.444 Marlin cases made VERY good. 410's - I've done it.

12.0gr. Unique and 1/2 ounce of whatever you want- I used 6's.

To load:

prime & dump in powder - then thin "B" card wad.

Then .410 plastic wad- push down to powder - mark the side just a tich down from the case mouth - pull it back up a bit with needle-nose pliers, then trim on the line with scissors.

Shove back down and fill with shot to just below the mouth- should be 1/2 ounce- or so.

Then I put a .44 mag gas check cup-down on the shot, then run into the seating/crimp die to put a roll crimp on the case mouth.

Done:

This patterned as well or better in both my daughter's .410's than did any commercial ammo.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: DarylS]
      #292274 - 19/12/16 09:02 AM

500Boswell,
I was only just looking myself into how to reload for it as I like to be able to reload for everything I shoot.

Just got an old H&R model 1915 only the other day, & wish I could date the darn thing!

It seems that the old manual LEE handloader kits are now no longer available & to reload these cases are not as 'factory' as I like.
The link below should help you out - some pretty rough stuff out there but it will all work; some like Daryl's though will be much more professional, especially using the .444 brass.
http://www.fourten.org.uk/mwloading.html

If you keep your cases
from latest ADI manual
Winchester AA cases 2 1/2"
Winchester AA41 wads
Winchester 209 Magnum
AR2205 14gn
No6 1/2 Oz
Approx 1200fps

Cheers
93x64mm

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #292277 - 19/12/16 09:15 AM

I read 2205 as H4227 equivalence.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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500Boswell
.400 member


Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: DarylS]
      #292282 - 19/12/16 12:08 PM

Thanks everyone for the info and the link 93x64, Cheers ,i just remembered there was an article in the Australian Outdoors Magazine ,back in the good old days when Colin Shadbolt did the shooting Column ,before the ''powers that print ''removed the hunting and guns from the magazine ,about using 303 brass for 410 ,the brass i think had to be annealed then fire formed, and the Rim filed thinner so the action would close on it ,i think the load back then it cost 5 cents per shot .

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500Boswell
.400 member


Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #292283 - 19/12/16 12:12 PM

i will have a look at getting some 444 Marlin Brass

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greenshoots
.300 member


Reged: 23/05/08
Posts: 204
Loc: uk
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #292299 - 19/12/16 06:33 PM

this might be of some use


http://www.fourten.org.uk/index.html


greenshoots

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Carpetsahib
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: DarylS]
      #292310 - 20/12/16 12:00 AM

This makes me wonder: are there any .410 slug loads that could be used with .444 cases?

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: Carpetsahib]
      #292318 - 20/12/16 05:07 AM

Problem with .410 slugs for barrels with no rifling, is the extremely light weight due to the hollow based designs.

Now, if a person had a .410 SXS with 24" tuber and full chokes, I'd like to open the right tube to mod. choke for better patterning, then rifle the left one - about 18" twist and use 210 to 240gr. bullets in it with either smokeless for black-type loads or straight black powder.

For slug loads to use in .444 cases, check low pressure, extremely light weight cast bullet loads for the .444 Marlin.

The lightest bullet weight I can find in Lyman's 1973 handbook is 205gr.
Loads around 10.5gr. Red Dot, 11.0gr. Green Dot, 12.0gr. Unique, 15.0gr. Blue Dot, 10.5gr. 700X, 13.0gr. SR7625, 14.0gr. SR54756 will produce in the 1,340fps range. These are the starting loads in the manual and should work just fine. I would use a filler (foam) between any slug and the powder. 2 or 3 round balls that fit the muzzle might actually be a decent load.
A .395" round ball in hard lead will weigh about 90gr. - so- some minor extrapolation of loadings would fit here.

215gr. cast bullets in the .444 start with about the same loads and velocities.

For a 3-ball load (245gr.bullet), the suggested starting loads are exactly .5gr. less than those listed above. The velocities run 1,200fps to 1,300fps.

If you have access to really old manuals, perhaps anything listed for the various BP .40 cal. short cases would be appropriate.

Some examples: .40/60 Maynard, .40/50 Sharps Straight, .40/60 Winchester, .40/60 Marlin, 40-63 Ballard, etc.

The second number here is the black powder load.
COTW lists 20.0gr. to 26gr. IMR4198 with bullets from 210gr. to 300 for these rounds, for nitro-for-black loads.
These are quite 'soft' loads.




--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Carpetsahib
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: DarylS]
      #292320 - 20/12/16 05:22 AM

Thanks for the info. In the back of my mind, I have the idea of rifling a spare .410 barrel for a M94 Stevens. That would open up a lot of possibilities.

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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1207
Loc: fla
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: Carpetsahib]
      #292322 - 20/12/16 05:28 AM

If it is oked to ship to ya.ballistic products is where I buy all my shotguning supplies and mec reloaders are on eBay all the time.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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sbs470
.333 member


Reged: 15/04/04
Posts: 378
Loc: Sheffield Tasmania
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: ducmarc]
      #292335 - 20/12/16 11:36 AM

Bruce Moss wrote an article in the Australian shooter mag. July 2000 titled
The .410"-the diminutive dynamo. Well worth having a look at.

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elvas
.275 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Thessaloniki, GREECE
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: sbs470]
      #292374 - 21/12/16 08:50 AM

The Saiga 410 shotgun with a factory rifled choke tube will perfectly stabilise 41 cal bullets without any attached wad tail or hollow based slug.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: elvas]
      #292388 - 21/12/16 04:20 PM

That is interesting, news elvas - TKS.

There might be enough meat in a SXS .410 shotgun to cut it behind the chokes and thread for those tubes, if they are available on the market.

Saiga - Hmm - made where?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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elvas
.275 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Thessaloniki, GREECE
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: DarylS]
      #292392 - 21/12/16 07:24 PM

Saiga shotguns are made in Russia and I think both shotguns and rifled choke tubes are imported in USA.

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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: elvas]
      #292398 - 21/12/16 09:33 PM

The rifled choke sounds cool, but I think the Saiga screws on externally !

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elvas
.275 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Thessaloniki, GREECE
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: Sarg]
      #292411 - 22/12/16 04:07 AM

Yes, externally and if I remember correctly they have left hand threads.
Their deep rifling is the reason for good gyroscopic stability, I believe.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: elvas]
      #292414 - 22/12/16 05:53 AM

Thanks guys.

Outside mount of course, would mean suitability for singles only. Oh well.

Screw-on conversion from cylinder bore to paradox - cool!

With concentrator wads available today, even a cylinder .410 shot-slinger can be made to have a killing range of 25 yards or more, same as a standard full choked .410.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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elvas
.275 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Thessaloniki, GREECE
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: DarylS]
      #292420 - 22/12/16 08:14 AM

With 190-210grain bullets at almost 1800f/s its more a 41mag. rifle than a 410 slug shotgun, I suppose.

Edited by elvas (22/12/16 08:15 AM)

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BigEyeBob
.275 member


Reged: 12/05/16
Posts: 60
Loc: Katherine Northern Territory ...
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: elvas]
      #295786 - 24/02/17 07:33 PM

Ive used 444 marlin cases to build 410 ammunition , havent done any for many years , but Ive just acquired a ver nice AYA sxs in mint condition I want to reload for .In the past I just used my RCBS rockchucker press.
Cast Bullet Engineering here in Oz offer a 410 adjustable slug mould , it drpos a slug that fits inside a 410 wad ,IIRc the slug mikes out at .380" on the outer diameter. I have a mould on the way to try these out .
Kev.

--------------------
I'm not young enough to know every thing .

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: BigEyeBob]
      #295803 - 25/02/17 05:26 AM

12 gr. of unique with 1/2 ounce in .444 cases was what I used. I also used a .44 gas check as an overshot wad.

Load the powder, shove in a .410 3" plastic wad, mark at the top of the case, pull it up and snip off just below that mark, then fill with shot, shove in an up-side-down gas check or hard card wad OS wad and crimp in the .444 seater die - done.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Shackleton
.300 member


Reged: 11/08/07
Posts: 203
Loc: Iowa
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: DarylS]
      #295855 - 25/02/17 01:25 PM

Quote:

12 gr. of unique with 1/2 ounce in .444 cases was what I used. I also used a .44 gas check as an overshot wad.

Load the powder, shove in a .410 3" plastic wad, mark at the top of the case, pull it up and snip off just below that mark, then fill with shot, shove in an up-side-down gas check or hard card wad OS wad and crimp in the .444 seater die - done.



Great idea, might have to try that myself sometime.

--------------------
"I do not kill with my gun, he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart."--Stephen King

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 410 reloaders ? [Re: Shackleton]
      #295865 - 26/02/17 05:16 AM

In my little girl's .410 single shots, they actually patterned as well or better than the 2 1/2" #6 loads on grouse and allowed shots to 30 yards quite easily.

3" factory were horrid - huge holey wounding pattern and no killing pattern past 25 yards.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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