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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: 4seventy]
      #21443 - 29/11/04 05:22 PM

In reply to:

600 Nitro by Marcel Thys
577 Nitro by Charles Osborne
500 Nitro... Sorry don't know the maker of this one
450 No2 Nitro by Joseph Lang
450-400 3 1/4" Nitro by Army Navy
Also there's the 700 Nitro by Watson Brothers




Wow, no Searcy!

Maybe MS does "charge" more than some others.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Jase
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: NitroX]
      #21449 - 29/11/04 06:16 PM

Anyone in Australia distribute the videos?

--------------------
cheers
Jase


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4seventy
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: NitroX]
      #21452 - 29/11/04 08:06 PM

In reply to:

The original "buffalo charge" video was "Africa's Black Death".

I would buy that one if I didn't have any others.




Yup, thats the one I'd pick as well.


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Ndumo
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: Blitz]
      #21483 - 30/11/04 09:14 AM

Blitz
Just to put your .300 Wby in perspective-
I did a hunt with 2 clients. We went in on two lone buffalo, one bull, one cow. The guy stalking in with me was using my 9.3x64 with 286gr Rhino bullets, and was after the bull. At his perfectly placed shot (45 degrees angeled from front into heart), both buff took off, but the bull piled up within 50 yards. The plan was for the other hunter to try and shoot the cow as well, so he had to make his way to us to get my 9.3. But, coming over to fetch the 9.3, he got a perfectly broadside shot at the cow, about 40 yards out. (Remember that cows are generally about 25% LIGHTER THAN BULLS). He took it with his .300 Wby, loaded with 200gr. Swift A-Frames. (In my opinion, one of the best softs ever made). He said that he reckoned that since we were there to back him, it was legal. He continued to empty his magazine into the buff. By now, I caught up on him, and try to give him my .450 Rigby to finish the job. (His mag was empty, remember.) He was totally confused, and did not take my rifle. I looked at the buff (still about 40 y out), and saw that it was readying itself for a charge. (Threw up her head, and sort of pulled herself together.) I shot her into her chest, with my .450 loaded with 550gr Rhino bullets. This took the fight out of her. The other hunter now joined us, and shot her again with my 9.3. I saw that the cow is going down, and asked the hunter to just finish her off with the .450. Another shot, and she went down. (8 in total)The post mortem revieled that the first AFrame did not make it through the shoulder, and that the others were not placed nearly right for a clean killing shot. even when using solids, I believe that buffalo might have caused a lot of s**t, but luckily did not. I learned a lot from that experience, and will stick to the limits set by law. (Mostly 9.3 btw, and not .375 as so often quoted.)

Lastly, my opinion on Mark Sullivan.
He is a great marketer. I would just like him to stop BSting people on why he takes its time to kill a wounded animal. My opinion, if you shoot and maybe wound, kill the animal asap!!!!!!

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416


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EricD
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: JackKnife]
      #21682 - 04/12/04 09:08 PM

Dragging this thread on a bit longer...

His good points are that he seems to find a great deal of amazing trophys, and has cool guns to hunt with. And of course you get to see lots of buff and their differant reactions. But that's about all I can appreciate.

Yesterday I veiwed "Death at my feet" on a DVD I've borrowed, and it's consistant with the couple of MS films I've seen before. That is to say, not my cup of tea... Just the fact that he says "we could shoot this wounded buffalo now, but we won't, so that he can choose his own death" (or at least something very close to that quote). And then the minutes of MS BS goes on. When they're standing only about 15 meters away, and the animal is wounded, I think this shows very little respect to the animal, and they're just prolonging it's suffering. This kind of thing just gives hunting a bad reputation IMO, and I can only hope that anti hunters don't get a wiff of what goes on in MS videos. I personally would rather shoot the animal again right away, and put it down, as I have always tried to do when possible... MS just likes to drag on, spewing his "philosophical" BS, letting the animal get even more wound up, so that a charge is inevitable when they get even closer. OK, they create cool charges, but then it appears that most of the charges are dealt by MS himself, and the client often doesn't get off a shot. At least it seems that way when I replayed several charges frame by frame. I guess it's up to each and every hunter, but I prefer shooting my own animals.

Then there is the elephant on the above mentioned film, Maybe I missed something, but when I played that scene over and over, using the DVDs zoom button too, it looks to me like the client actually missed the elephant (after being told to shoot, when it was in at a very poor angle). The shot appears to puff up visable dust behind the elephant on the upper left side as far as I could see, while MS' shot (when the elephant has turned around so we can see his side) puffs up dust on what I would presume is in its spine above the rib cage. Has anyone else noticed this?

And then there's the charge where the buff get shot in the mouth by MS. The thing that shocked me here was that the client didn't have any ammo in his borrowed 500 Jeffery! He forgot to reload, and MS hadn't reminded him... I guess the clients sense of survival wasn't very evolved... What kind of dufus goes after a wounded buff with an empty gun! And what kind of PH doesn't remind the client to fill his mag and reload, after the clients shot 4 shots (or whatever), and their about to close in on the wounded, pumped up animal... Not very proffesional IMO. It just shows that MS is focused more on himself, and his own shooting, than the clients if you ask me.

So all in all, I feel that MS' comments about "This is what real hunting is all about", should be changed to: "This is what making an action movie, that will fill MS pockets with money, is all about". And he is talented at that. But his films leaves me with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

Erik


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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: EricD]
      #21692 - 05/12/04 01:50 AM

MS is definitely a cool shot under pressure. He's demonstrated this many times. I too disagree with his not allowing a client to finish off a wounded animal as soon as the chance presents itself. He does get excellent trophies for his clients, and his videos are well filmed. He isn't a P.H. I would like to hunt with though. I met MS at as sports show several years ago, and our personalities were not a good match.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: EricD]
      #21743 - 05/12/04 11:39 PM

In reply to:

Then there is the elephant on the above mentioned film,




For those interested there is a great elephant charge in the Double Rifle hunting video "Death by Double Rifle".



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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4seventy
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: EricD]
      #21775 - 06/12/04 09:31 AM

In reply to:

He forgot to reload, and MS hadn't reminded him




I think the client had run out of ammo and as such he could not reload.
After the bull was killed the client said that he had " run out of bullets, totally."


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EricD
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: 4seventy]
      #21778 - 06/12/04 10:10 AM

In reply to:

I think the client had run out of ammo and as such he could not reload.
After the bull was killed the client said that he had " run out of bullets, totally."





Maybe you're right. I kind of interpreted what was said regarding the running out of bullets as: Forgot to put more bullets in the magazine before going up the hill after the wounded buff...

Anyway, if you're right (which would make the situation ever so slightly more tolerable), I still think that MS, when supplying the rifle (I think it was his if I'm not mistaken), should make sure they take more than a small handfull of rounds out for the day! But then on the otherhand, he probably calculated that he'd be doing most of the shooting himself with his double...

Erik


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EricD
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: NitroX]
      #21828 - 07/12/04 06:19 AM

In reply to:

For those interested there is a great elephant charge in the Double Rifle hunting video "Death by Double Rifle".





John,

I recently watched this video too. And the charge you mention did look like it was a pretty close call! It did appear though that there might have been some dissagrement between the game scout and the PH. That the game scout didn't think the charge was a good enough reason to shoot the bull... I guess he didn't think it was "full blown", or whatever. I personally think that that particular bull was pissed enough, and close enough, to shoot in self defense.

Erik


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JefferyDenmark
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: EricD]
      #21900 - 08/12/04 04:06 AM

Erik

The .500 Jeffery rifle is Mark Sullivans and the client did run out of bullets.
They shot the buffalo 5 times with the .500 Jeffery.
535 grn bullets at 2400 fps Bla bla blka
Normaly that should do it but it didn't this time and Mark had to step in with the famous "Death-by-600" head shot
I do lovb that double. the way it handles light recoil.
Well any way Always carry 20 rounds or more when hunting

Cheers,

André

--------------------
Always always use enough ... GUN


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EricD
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: JefferyDenmark]
      #21910 - 08/12/04 07:37 AM

In reply to:

Well any way Always carry 20 rounds or more when hunting




André,

That's exactly my point! I mean, even if it's a 700NE double, I think it's a bit careless to take only 5 bullets with you when hunting! Because shit does happen, and then what will you do? Use the gun as a club?

So MS, as the PH, should have made sure they carried more with them IMO.

I'm glad to see that you will be better prepaired with your Heym!

Erik


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: EricD]
      #21919 - 08/12/04 09:32 AM

I was hunting with a PH who once asked me why I was carrying so many cartridges. I had four in the magazine, maybe nine or so on belt pouches and another 10 or so in a day bag.

I thought he would probably snap "why didn't you bring more cartridges?" - if I did run out if they were needed.

Some of these blokes think they are the only hunters and that everyone else is an amateur tourist. They forget maybe some clients do a lot of hunting themselves and can think for themselves as well.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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mickey
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: NitroX]
      #21936 - 08/12/04 12:45 PM

In reply to:

Some of these blokes think they are the only hunters and that everyone else is an amateur tourist. They forget maybe some clients do a lot of hunting themselves and can think for themselves as well.




Some of the worst shots I have ever seen have been PHs in Africa and Bear Guides in Alaska. I guess they don't get to practice much. Also I have noticed that a lot of both types are shooting large rifles that they are afraid of.

Next time the PH wants you to rest your Big Bore on the bonnet and shoot for him ask him to shoot a couple for you. It will probably scare the crap out of you.

Don't tell me how well you shoot at 400 yards, just how well you shoot at 4 yards.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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4seventy
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: NitroX]
      #21940 - 08/12/04 01:05 PM

In reply to:

Some of these blokes think they are the only hunters and that everyone else is an amateur tourist.




Nitro,
That statement can work the other way around too!


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4seventy
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: mickey]
      #21941 - 08/12/04 01:11 PM

In reply to:

Next time the PH wants you to rest your Big Bore on the bonnet and shoot for him ask him to shoot a couple for you. It will probably scare the crap out of you.




Mick,
Sounds great!
If we ever hunt together make sure you bring something "nice" for me to scare you with.


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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: mickey]
      #21950 - 08/12/04 02:35 PM

When I was younger and dumber, I asked my P.H. if he could outrun a charging lion. He said "I don't have to. I only have to outrun you."

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Will
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #21958 - 08/12/04 08:58 PM

The bottom line is that the PH is looking after you but don't take it to heart. You are responsible for your own safety and your own actions in the long run, like taking enough cartridges, and using enough gun.

It is fun to be on the learning curve on several safaris but eventually, especially when you get old, and the slowest guy off the starting blocks when charged, you better being using enough gun and be able to fend for yourself.

All the folks that got hurt or killed by buffalo this year proves the point.



--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.


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DUGABOY1
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: mickey]
      #22445 - 20/12/04 02:57 PM

In reply to:

Mac,

For what it's worth Mark does not have any camps of his own. He uses the same ones that we all do, he just charges more...... and seemingly so do the Buffalo in his movies!

Very well put.




Nor does just about any other PH in Africa! However how the camp is run while they use it, differs greatly, between PHs!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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DUGABOY1
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #22446 - 20/12/04 03:05 PM

In reply to:

I think he makes a good dollar in his law practice too.




MS doesn't have a law firm! He is a financial adviser in the off season in PHX. His son is either going to law school, or may have graduated, and passed the Barr, by now.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #22447 - 20/12/04 03:27 PM

I mentioned his being a lawyer only because a friend of mine hunted with M.S.a few years ago, and he mentioned that M.S. was a lawyer. Must have been a misunderstanding-too many sundowners perhaps?

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DETCORD
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #23492 - 05/01/05 02:29 AM

I HAVE TALKED WITH MARK SEVERAL TIMES, AND HAVE ALWAYS FOUND HIM VERY CONFIDENT, BUT DOWN TO EARTH AND QUITE ENTERTAINING. HE IS ALWAYS WILLING TO TALK "AFRICA", AND OFFER ADVICE REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU ARE HUNTING WITH HIM OR ANOTHER OUTFITTER. I PERSONALLY ENJOY MARKS VIDEOS, AND HIS SAFARI PRICES WERE $1650.00 PER DAY IN 2004 , WHICH IS LESS THAN SOME WERE CHARGING IN THE SAME AREAS. MARKS TOLD ME HIS SON SHAWN LIVES IN MIAMI, AND HAS SET UP A BUSINESS FOR HIMSELF. I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING HIM AGAIN AT THE SCI CONVENTION IN RENO IN A FEW WEEKS, AND MAY BOOK WITH HIM FOR 2005 IF HE HAS ANY OPENINGS LEFT.

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4seventy
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: DETCORD]
      #23512 - 05/01/05 09:47 AM

In reply to:

I PERSONALLY ENJOY MARKS VIDEOS




Detcord,
Me too!
I also believe that his videos have contributed toward the current interest in double rifles.
Rather than adopting the self righteous hunting video critic thing, I enjoy those tapes for their quality buffalo lion leopard and hippo content, as well as the beautiful double rifles.

Much critisism has been directed his way regarding not finishing animals off immediatly.
As MS himself points out in his latest video, the "accepted practise" of some other PH's for many years with wounded dangerous game in thick bush or long grass, has been to sit down and have a smoke, and wait half an hour for the wounded animal to "stiffen up", before attempting a follow up!
I think that most of MS's client's wounded game is finished off within a couple of minutes or less.
I say give the guy a break.
Some of the people who moan and bitch about his hunting ethics have most likely had hunting situations themselves where, had someone been filming them at the time, they too could have found themselves subjected to the same type of critisism they love to throw at Sullivan.

Well that's my little rant done!


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JefferyDenmark
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: 4seventy]
      #23664 - 07/01/05 08:18 PM

In reply to:

As MS himself points out in his latest video, the "accepted practise" of some other PH's for many years with wounded dangerous game in thick bush or long grass, has been to sit down and have a smoke, and wait half an hour for the wounded animal to "stiffen up", before attempting a follow up!
I think that most of MS's client's wounded game is finished off within a couple of minutes or less.





Good point

I also enjoy the Sullivan movies.

Cheers,

André

--------------------
Always always use enough ... GUN


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mark Sullivan and the Tall Poppy Syndrome [Re: 4seventy]
      #23671 - 07/01/05 11:56 PM

In reply to:

As MS himself points out in his latest video, the "accepted practise" of some other PH's for many years with wounded dangerous game in thick bush or long grass, has been to sit down and have a smoke, and wait half an hour for the wounded animal to "stiffen up", before attempting a follow up!
I think that most of MS's client's wounded game is finished off within a couple of minutes or less.





Allan

very good point.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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