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OntarioNimrod
.224 member


Reged: 07/06/16
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Looking for my first double
      #283553 - 07/06/16 06:56 AM

Hello all esteemed DR experts. I am brand new to this forum, but I'm seeking advice and assistance as I've started looking for my first double rifle.

First off, I am in Ontario, Canada, so finding something in Canada would be preferred (between currency exchange, shipping, import fees, taxes, duties, etc., a "good deal" from the U.S. can quickly become not such a good deal). I'm looking for a used .470, and the makes I'm interested in are Heym, Searcy, Chapuis or VC, and possibly Merkel. If any forum members from Canada know of something available up here, I'd appreciate hearing about it. I'm also open to any other suggestions. I've been looking for some time now up here, and have not found anything available along the lines of what I'm looking for.

Thank you in advance.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Looking for my first double [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #283563 - 07/06/16 09:14 AM

Hi ONR - welcome and good luck finding a .470 - you will likely need it.

Perchance, you should contact Ron Vella from Oshawa - member of this forum. He builds DR's in up to .450 #2 I think.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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OntarioNimrod
.224 member


Reged: 07/06/16
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: DarylS]
      #283572 - 07/06/16 12:42 PM

Quote:

Hi ONR - welcome and good luck finding a .470 - you will likely need it.

Perchance, you should contact Ron Vella from Oshawa - member of this forum. He builds DR's in up to .450 #2 I think.



Thank you, Daryl. Out of curiosity, why do you say I will need some luck? Something about that calibre, or just shortage big bore doubles in general up here?

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Postman
.375 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #283587 - 07/06/16 11:13 PM

Welcome to the forum!!!!!!!

There are both new and used options available to you in Canada.

Try Epps. They have lots of various doubles in stock, and currently do have a used Merkel in .470. Both Wolverine and Tradex also have several new .470s in stock. Ralf Martini in Cranbrook has several older used doubles for sale as well, and there are others across the country that carry what you seek.

Prices vary and your mileage will vary wrt to deals, but generally you will not find anyone giving them away and you will see $10k give or take vacate your pocket for these entry level but quality doubles in .470, e.g., Merkel, Chapuis, VC, (and Heym for a little better build / finishing quality and of course a little more money). The good news is that these sellers are priced in CDN currency so it is closer to $10k of Monopoly money vs $USD with the current dismal exchange rate.

Edited by Postman (07/06/16 11:18 PM)

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OntarioNimrod
.224 member


Reged: 07/06/16
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: Postman]
      #283592 - 08/06/16 12:02 AM

Quote:

Welcome to the forum!!!!!!!

There are both new and used options available to you in Canada.

Try Epps. They have lots of various doubles in stock, and currently do have a used Merkel in .470. Both Wolverine and Tradex also have several new .470s in stock. Ralf Martini in Cranbrook has several older used doubles for sale as well, and there are others across the country that carry what you seek.

Prices vary and your mileage will vary wrt to deals, but generally you will not find anyone giving them away and you will see $10k give or take vacate your pocket for these entry level but quality doubles in .470, e.g., Merkel, Chapuis, VC, (and Heym for a little better build / finishing quality and of course a little more money). The good news is that these sellers are priced in CDN currency so it is closer to $10k of Monopoly money vs $USD with the current dismal exchange rate.

Yes

Thank you.

I actually requested photos of that Merkel from Epps last night, and just received them. So far, I'm not that impressed, especially with the wood. I have asked for more pics, if they have.

I am familiar with Tradex, and also their pricing is decent, I was hoping to find a better value in the second-hand market.

I didn't realize Wolverine had that many Merkels. I have just asked them for more pics, if they have. Thank you.

The only .470 I see on Martini's site is a Nick Makinson, about which I have just posted a query here for opinions (as I'm not really familiar with either the builder or the Browning action).

Yes, $10K is about what I'm looking to spend (a little more if I found a Heym).

Thank you for your help.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27009
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Re: Looking for my first double [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #283596 - 08/06/16 01:31 AM

I said good luck as I don't think there are THAT many in the market here.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #283598 - 08/06/16 01:46 AM

Londero has a brand spanking new safari sidelock Heym with factory mounted Zeiss (I believe) scope in .375H&H. It is a really good value for what it is but it's $25k CDN ( price would normally be around $25k US without mounts or scope according to the posted price list on the Heym USA web site) and it's not in your target caliber. I believe Londero is an importer for Heym so they may be worth speaking to if you want to order up a new PH boxlock in .470.

From time to time over the last 4 or 5 years I've seen a few used Heym box locks pass through Epps in both .470 and .500 for $14k or maybe a little less depending on condition, but they don't stay on the shelf very long.

Best of luck in your search. It may take a while but it will be loads of fun and most certainly worth the effort when you get into your double!!!!!!

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: DarylS]
      #283600 - 08/06/16 01:57 AM

Quote:

I said good luck as I don't think there are THAT many in the market here.



I think Daryl is right. My sense too is that there just aren't very many on the market here in Canada. Folks may buy them, but they don't seem to churn them like one might a Remchester.

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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
Posts: 206
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: Postman]
      #283604 - 08/06/16 04:20 AM

I have a Merkel 470 that shoots great! It is amazing how well regulated and accurate it is. I might could be coaxed out of mine, but sounds like the shipping from USA would be a little rough...

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albertan
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Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: TOBY458]
      #283607 - 08/06/16 05:32 AM

Tradeex Canada located in Hawkesbury Ontario sells Chapuis and Verney Carron double rifles. Check out their website and click on Double Rifles. They have an over under VC in .303 British that gets my heart pumping. Rifle porn indeed.

As far as doubles for hunting, the .500 Nitro would be my first choice. Recoil is not much different than the .470, but it hits harder.

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Rockdoc
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Reged: 07/12/06
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Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: albertan]
      #283612 - 08/06/16 06:48 AM

Welcome OntarioNimrod.

Look forward to seeing the results of your quest.

Cheers, Chris

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OntarioNimrod
.224 member


Reged: 07/06/16
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: TOBY458]
      #283617 - 08/06/16 08:32 AM

Quote:

I have a Merkel 470 that shoots great! It is amazing how well regulated and accurate it is. I might could be coaxed out of mine, but sounds like the shipping from USA would be a little rough...



Yes, I will try for now to find something up here. Thank you, though.

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OntarioNimrod
.224 member


Reged: 07/06/16
Posts: 22
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Re: Looking for my first double [Re: albertan]
      #283618 - 08/06/16 08:33 AM

Quote:

Tradeex Canada located in Hawkesbury Ontario sells Chapuis and Verney Carron double rifles. Check out their website and click on Double Rifles. They have an over under VC in .303 British that gets my heart pumping. Rifle porn indeed.

As far as doubles for hunting, the .500 Nitro would be my first choice. Recoil is not much different than the .470, but it hits harder.



Thank you. Yes, I'm familiar with Tradex, and their pricing is decent, but I'm hoping for a better value on something in the second-hand market. But I'm trying to arrange a visit to Tradex to see what they have.

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OntarioNimrod
.224 member


Reged: 07/06/16
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #283807 - 13/06/16 11:53 AM

Went to check out a couple of used DRs yesterday. The first was a Merkel 140AE in .470 (my calibre of choice). It felt heavy overall, but seemed to point fairly well for me. The other was a VC Azur Safari in .500NE. Although I assume they both weighed about the same, the balance of the VC was definitely very different. It seemed more back-heavy than the Merkel and, as a result, the muzzle seemed to "float" a bit. Is this what you want, or is the Merkel's handling more desirable? The VC was also pointing naturally high for me, which I assume means that the comb was too high?? They were both a bit short for me, but I assume lengthening the LOP on a DR is not a big deal. Thoughts?

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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
Posts: 206
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #283819 - 13/06/16 09:28 PM

The Merkel 470 that I have is a little barrel heavy as well. But, when she goes off, you'll appreciate a little weight up front. Does the VC have a splinter forend, or a wrap around? Most of the newer doubles, like the Heym and Chapuis seem to have gone to the wrap around style for some reason. I prefer the splinter forend of the Merkel myself. It is more like the English doubles in feel and pointability.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Looking for my first double [Re: TOBY458]
      #283824 - 13/06/16 11:22 PM

Quote:

Most of the newer doubles, like the Heym and Chapuis seem to have gone to the wrap around style for some reason. I prefer the splinter forend of the Merkel myself. It is more like the English doubles in feel and pointability.



The reason is you are seeing the double rifles and shotguns designed for the US market. Or for Heym their standard non-Euro model is designed for the US market. With the beavertail or "wrap around" fore-ends.

The Chapuis has one of the most aweful beavertail chunky fore-ends, and I would not buy one for this reason.

The splinter fore-end is more the old English and European design and much preferred.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Looking for my first double *DELETED* [Re: NitroX]
      #283831 - 14/06/16 12:59 AM

Post deleted by Postman

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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
Posts: 206
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: Postman]
      #283834 - 14/06/16 02:19 AM

Postman.

My Merkel doesn't have an auto safety. Is that something they went to recently? I had mine apart recently, and saw no signs of modification to the safety. Mine is a 2003 model by the way.

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OntarioNimrod
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Reged: 07/06/16
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: TOBY458]
      #283838 - 14/06/16 03:51 AM

Quote:

Does the VC have a splinter forend, or a wrap around? Most of the newer doubles, like the Heym and Chapuis seem to have gone to the wrap around style for some reason. I prefer the splinter forend of the Merkel myself. It is more like the English doubles in feel and pointability.



If I recall correctly, I believe it was more of a wrap-around. What I did notice more about the forend was that on the Merkel, it was a bit tricky to snap back into place (pinched my palm, in fact), whereas the button-system on the VC was very easy and smooth.

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OntarioNimrod
.224 member


Reged: 07/06/16
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: TOBY458]
      #283839 - 14/06/16 03:53 AM

Quote:

Postman.

My Merkel doesn't have an auto safety. Is that something they went to recently? I had mine apart recently, and saw no signs of modification to the safety. Mine is a 2003 model by the way.



Is there a way to tell if it has that, while looking at one in a store?

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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
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Re: Looking for my first double [Re: OntarioNimrod]
      #283869 - 14/06/16 09:11 PM

The auto safety feature would only be evident after firing the gun and then re-cocking the hammers. If it goes to safety on it's own, then it's automatic. Just make sure they have snap caps in the chambers, or they will probably disaprove of it being dry fired.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Looking for my first double [Re: TOBY458]
      #283874 - 14/06/16 10:08 PM

Does V-C have a wraparound or splinter fore-end?

Well the L'Atelier Verney-Carron is a CUSTOM rifle. You can specify what you want. I was certainly asked this by Jerome, V-C's master gunmaker when I visited Verney-Carron in France and had a fitting just in case. Unfortunately finances have meant the "dream" is taking longer than planned.

I am a little confused by when people seem to buy a V-C double rifle "off the rack", as I believed all V-C's to be L'Atelier or custom rifles. They probably make some to some standard "pattern" for "off the rack" sales. I will ask Jean V-C.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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OntarioNimrod
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Reged: 07/06/16
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: Looking for my first double [Re: TOBY458]
      #283891 - 15/06/16 01:18 AM

Quote:

The auto safety feature would only be evident after firing the gun and then re-cocking the hammers. If it goes to safety on it's own, then it's automatic. Just make sure they have snap caps in the chambers, or they will probably disaprove of it being dry fired.



Thank you.

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