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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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AbitNutz
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Reged: 02/09/12
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Loc: Ohio, USA
H&H Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Any info?
      #282684 - 20/05/16 08:28 AM

I'm looking at a Holland & Holland Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot in 45/70. I'm not familiar with this rifle at all. It surely must have been re-barreled as I doubt H&H made it in 45/70.

This one is quite plain. It has what look like, stock reinforcement down either side through the pistol grip.

Can anyone point me at good source? Any history would be appreciated. There are dates on it but I don't believe they correspond with production dates.

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TH44
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Reged: 21/02/09
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Re: H&H Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Any info? [Re: AbitNutz]
      #282685 - 20/05/16 08:32 AM

Pics pics pics please please.

Include all numbers

TH44

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greenshoots
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Reged: 23/05/08
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Re: H&H Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Any info? [Re: TH44]
      #282692 - 20/05/16 04:55 PM

has it been sleeved?

greenshoots

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AbitNutz
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Re: H&H Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Any info? [Re: greenshoots]
      #282699 - 20/05/16 08:58 PM

Ok, here is a picture.

It looks like it's based on the Fraser action. Beyond that I'm clueless.

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rglenz
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Reged: 14/03/08
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Re: H&H Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Any info? [Re: AbitNutz]
      #282705 - 21/05/16 01:59 AM

Looks like a Field action,can't tell if anything else is original from the photo.

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Igorrock
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Re: H&H Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Any info? [Re: rglenz]
      #282717 - 21/05/16 05:18 AM

This looks quite similar:

http://www.icollector.com/Engraved-Holla...Rifle_i14554705



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TH44
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Re: H&H Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Any info? [Re: Igorrock]
      #282718 - 21/05/16 07:34 AM

Clearly a Field's patent action No. 1927 of 1877, used by many gunmakers

The sidelever locking lever may have been fitted by Field but was unusual except for Holland & Holland and Scott makers

Probably rebuilt to a greater or lesser extent (45-70 a logical U.S.conversion from most of the British .450s)
The Knox?form is shorter on this rifle than some pics I have, due to the rechambering??

My own Fields Patent is a Westley Richards in .450 No. 1 Carbine, equivalent to your .45-75

Very nice rifle, thanks for posting

TH44

Edited by TH44 (21/05/16 07:39 AM)

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AbitNutz
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Re: H&H Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Any info? [Re: TH44]
      #282720 - 21/05/16 01:11 PM

It's really a fascinating looking single shot. I'd love to find a Farquharson but haven't gotten close enough to one that wouldn't require selling my car.

I've gotten the usual. A Martini-Henry, Greener-Martini in 45/70, Various Sharps, Ruger no.1 in 450/400 NE, Winchester 1885 in 375 H&H. This Fraser derived Holland & Holland is just in my price range. Of Course, if I ever come across a Farquharson that won't blow up my budget, I'll just have to have it.

So...is the rifle in the photo a quality rifle?

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TH44
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Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: H&H Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Any info? [Re: AbitNutz]
      #282733 - 22/05/16 07:32 AM

Certainly a quality rifle when built for Holland & Holland, most rifles were decorated/engraved to suit the pocket of the buyer. I have several plain rifles and the quality is still there

How much the subsequent work has affected it is for you to decide, it looks good from the pics

I have a Sharps for reference (probably the original falling block??) Martini, this Fields Patent, a couple of Alexander Henrys, acouple of W-R "Improved Martinis" and a George Gibbs with original Farquharson action but would very much like a later Farq, but as you say, they do fetch good prices

Good luck with it if you do get it

TH44

Edited by TH44 (22/05/16 07:37 AM)

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HuviusModerator
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Re: H&H Side Lever Falling Block Single Shot Any info? [Re: AbitNutz]
      #282734 - 22/05/16 08:08 AM

Quote:

This Fraser derived Holland & Holland is just in my price range...

So...is the rifle in the photo a quality rifle?



Don't mistake this rifle for anything Fraser.
It is a Field patent action very likely supplied to H&H and modified by them.
The Field is a very robust, simple design which was used by many makers. H&H made quite a few of them.
It is a great design and this is for sure a quality rifle.
I don't think it has been rebarreled, probably set back and rechambered. There may be obvious gaps around the barrel, especially out on the far half of the forend, this is from setting back a tapered barrel and the forend wood stays where it is of course. Then the forend hanger is moved forward the same amount as the setback. Some guys were better than others at this. Sometimes little slivers of wood are added back into the barrel channel to fill the gap but more often not. Some smiths simply redrill the hole for the forend screw and fill in the old one with a wood plug while others may go as far as moving the barrel lug to keep the screw placement original especially if the screw is set into a fancy metal piece inlet into the wood. My Field has a diamond shaped piece for the screw which is very common.
Make sure you take a good look at the breech end of the barrel if you can to see if it has a sleeved chamber. If so, you are probably stuck with it as a 45/70 and unable to rechamber it to one of the original period British .45 cal cartridges. The 45/70, however, is a great cartridge and easy to find brass for so if you are not bothered by that, run with it. I guarantee it will be a ball!
A chamber cast will tell you a lot as far as seating out the bullet etc. but I have found my various Brit '45s to be rather lenient as far as bullet weights go regardless of the barrel twist.
Also, the Fields patent rifles I have looked at tend to have a pretty big firing pin so I would steer clear of any of the modern high pressure factory smokeless 45/70 ammo.

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