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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Joshua
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Loc: north carolina, usa
Please explain the differences
      #279247 - 14/03/16 02:19 AM

Can someone give me an explanation to the differences between a cape gun and a drilling? I am sort of confused on the subject and the variations of the two. I see cape guns going for lower prices alot of times than the drillings, so wanted to know the differences in the two.

Josh

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DarylS
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Joshua]
      #279249 - 14/03/16 03:07 AM

Drilling has 3 barrels - the lower rifle barrel is usually of small calibre compared to the upper SXS shotgun barrels.

A Cape Gun is usually of 2 barrels, a rifle barrel of large bore suitable for large African game and a shotgun barrel. They are mounted side by side & meant for hunting in Africa, not European game as-is a Drilling.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Igorrock
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: DarylS]
      #279253 - 14/03/16 03:37 AM

Side by side combination guns are nowadays quite rare but there still exists some older weapons in Europe, usually with smaller rifle caliber (mostly 7 mm or .30 cal) than real "cape guns".

There is many different compos among drillings; most usual is that version which Daryl S just describes but there is too bock-drilling, an O/U Rifle-shotgun combination with a smaller caliber rifle-barrel on the side. Then there is double rifle drilling, as name says, double rifle with one shotgun barrel.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Joshua
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Igorrock]
      #279254 - 14/03/16 04:01 AM

So drillings are more associated with european game and the cape guns more for african game? I got ya. Are there any top choices for shotgun gauge and rifle calibers in the drillings or cape guns? I love the 16 ga personally, but want a rifle caliber suited for most game up to the size of large deer and smaller elk

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Igorrock
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Joshua]
      #279257 - 14/03/16 04:46 AM

The biggest rifle caliber in drilling which I have seen in reality is 9,3x74R. I don't know any trademark which makes new cape guns but drilling is very easy to find as new. If you prefer deer and elk hunting I recommend you to buy double drilling with two 9,3x74R and one 20 cal. barrels. Or, perhaps, with two 8x57 IRS...

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Joshua
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Igorrock]
      #279259 - 14/03/16 06:02 AM

Well, I may live in the USA but I have a huge love for the 8mm bores. I think a double drilling in the mentioned 8x57 with a 16-20 ga would fit what I would like most easily. Perhaps some one can offer some rifles that I should be looking at?

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Joshua
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Reged: 01/03/16
Posts: 248
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Joshua]
      #279262 - 14/03/16 06:50 AM

Perhaps I should look for something like this? The metal and wood finish and engravings to my eye are beautiful and very intrinsic. The price is out of my reach for a while, but I wanted to get some idea as to what I should be looking for





https://www.joesalter.com/category/produ...rrel-16ga-8mmJR

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Igorrock
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Joshua]
      #279264 - 14/03/16 07:16 AM

For example, Merkel 96L or 961L would be a good canditate for yours needs.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Joshua
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Reged: 01/03/16
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Igorrock]
      #279267 - 14/03/16 07:27 AM

Igorrock, or anyone that could help, can you point me to some websites that have any for sale? I would love to look and see what they are if you do not mind. Thanks in advance
Josh

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Igorrock
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Joshua]
      #279322 - 15/03/16 06:10 AM

If you have interests to MERKEL drilling the best way to find them is contact local importer:

https://www.merkel-usa.com/

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Joshua
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Reged: 01/03/16
Posts: 248
Loc: north carolina, usa
Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Igorrock]
      #279323 - 15/03/16 06:37 AM

Thank you for the link Igorrock

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Joshua]
      #279326 - 15/03/16 09:34 AM

Quote:

Igorrock, or anyone that could help, can you point me to some websites that have any for sale? I would love to look and see what they are if you do not mind. Thanks in advance
Josh



A simple Google search "cape gun" is an amazing thing ;-))
Everything right there to answer your original question......

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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Joshua
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Reged: 01/03/16
Posts: 248
Loc: north carolina, usa
Re: Please explain the differences [Re: 3DogMike]
      #279328 - 15/03/16 10:08 AM

Alas 3dog, I have. Maybe I am not putting in the right subject matter, but I am finding little to answer what I am looking for

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Wayne59
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Joshua]
      #279332 - 15/03/16 11:40 AM

Guns International has from 50 to 100 listed at any given time.

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AkMike
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Wayne59]
      #279345 - 15/03/16 02:04 PM

As does http://www.gunbroker.com/

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Joshua]
      #279347 - 15/03/16 05:20 PM

Quote:

Can someone give me an explanation to the differences between a cape gun and a drilling? I am sort of confused on the subject and the variations of the two. I see cape guns going for lower prices alot of times than the drillings, so wanted to know the differences in the two.

Josh



Quote:

Quote:

Igorrock, or anyone that could help, can you point me to some websites that have any for sale? I would love to look and see what they are if you do not mind. Thanks in advance
Josh



A simple Google search "cape gun" is an amazing thing ;-))
Everything right there to answer your original question......



Quote:

Alas 3dog, I have. Maybe I am not putting in the right subject matter, but I am finding little to answer what I am looking for



First question pretty well answered already.

Cape gun, was a name for side by side shotgun barrel and rifle barrel from early South Africa or used there. A drilling, ie a German word, is a three barrelled rifle/shotgun combination. Also no such thng as a two barrelled "drilling".

The reason "cape guns" might be cheaper than "dillings" is the cape guns are probably older rifles/shotguns, originak vintage guns, and often the rifle barrel is in an unattractive chambering/calibre, not in much demand nowdays. Often originally a black powder cartridge. Some makers still make modern "cape guns" eg I believe Heym does, Blaser etc. The drillings might be older or brand new.

How to find a really nice combination firearm/gun at a really good price?

Million dollar question ... got to get out there and look. The internet makes most sellers nowadays knowledgeable ... send me $10,000 and I will find you a really nice $4000 drilling or even cape gun ...


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (15/03/16 05:59 PM)

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Buchsemann
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Reged: 12/12/08
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: NitroX]
      #279400 - 16/03/16 12:04 PM

On the German side of things ...

In German "drei" is three. With regards to firearms "drilling" is any combination of three. This can be the more common SXS shotgun with a rifle barrel parked below or ...

A double rifle drilling "doppelbuchsdrilling" wherein "doppel" is two and "buchse", in this case, means rifle. Not sure if the double rifle drilling always has to have a shot barrel below.

A "Bockdrilling" where "bock" means over/under and any combination of three.

Then there is the three shotgun barrel combination or the three rifle barrel combination. Every once in a while we see the three shotgun barrel combination but I personally haven't seen three rifle barrels ... yet.

The German term for the SXS configuration of a rifle and a shotgun barrel (called a Cape Gun by some) is "Buchsflinte", again where "buchse" is rifle and the shotgun barrel "flinte". The over/under configuration of this combination is called a "Bock Buchsflinte", sometimes seen abbreviated on the forums as a "BBF".

For the double rifle types the Germans refer to them as "Doppelbuchse" (SXS) and "Bockdoppelbuchse" (O/U).

In all this you can expect to see a wide range of rifle calibers and the same shotgun gages you'd see in other countries. "Back in the day" the customer could order just about anything.

Hope I have this correct after these many years but if not I trust our German friends can get such in order.

Mark

… not wanting to assume anything I’d sure like to know what the official German terms are for the three shotgun barrel and three rifle barrel drillings are. German gun folks?

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

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fuhrmann
.333 member


Reged: 04/01/05
Posts: 328
Loc: Switzerland
Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Buchsemann]
      #279406 - 16/03/16 05:28 PM

Mark

all correct, but as a German I must mention the "Umlaut" - a rifle is a Büchse or Buechse.

Further reference can be found here, for instance:
http://www.deutsches-jagd-lexikon.de/index.php?title=Kombinierte_Waffe

Three shotgun barrels give a Flintendrilling, three rifle drillings a Büchsendrilling or Büchsdrilling ( to add confusion, some people will call a Bockbüchsdrilling the same...)
But these are rare, at least in the old days with fixed barels, must be a devil to regulate, and in my eyes not worth the weight, trouble and money over a double rifle.
So this used to be the playground for "innovative" Ferlach gunmakers.
But surprise, you can have them now from Merkel or Blaser as well:
http://www.merkel-die-jagd.de/de/produkte/gewehre/drillinge/961l-961ls-schrotdrilling-961ls

One more word to the Büchsflinte: this was very common back in the days when guns had hammers and the world moved with blackpowder speed.
Later the over-under or Bock configuration took over almost completely.

Now we also use the British term cape gun, but this is actually a somewhat different gun:
rather large rifle caliber, as it was said above, and the rifle barrel on the left side.
A German / Austrian Büchsflinte always has the rifle barrel to the right, fired with the front trigger, which in most cases can be set (French set trigger / Rückstecher).

Regards,
fuhrmann

Edited by fuhrmann (16/03/16 05:36 PM)

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fuhrmann
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: fuhrmann]
      #279409 - 16/03/16 07:56 PM

The combinations are quite endless

http://www.hoferwaffen.com/hofer_52.php?lang=de

sometimes quite senseless too, if you ask me...
But if you pay, anything goes!

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Please explain the differences [Re: fuhrmann]
      #279413 - 16/03/16 10:02 PM

My hunting mate Marty has a relatively modern Sauer 3000 in 12 x 12 x .30-06
Pretty hard to beat that combination for all-round hunting in our neck of the woods.
His example is not engraved, three to five grand I would guess, depending on used condition, and certainly not rare.

He would no doubt recommend the chamberings.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: Marrakai]
      #279794 - 25/03/16 12:21 PM

The Cape guns were origenally named "CAPE GUNS" because they were the favorite firearm for the farmers who settled the Cape of Good Hope in what is now RSA. They were simply a combination gun so the farmer had a firearm that would handle what ever he needed at the time. They were side by sides because the origenals were made before O/U shotguns were common, and that configuration was what people were use to. Most were, infact, in the same chamberings that the settelers were used to in Europe, most were 16 ga shot barrels by 8mm or 9mm to 9.3 to 9.5 rifle.

I have a H. Berrela 16/8X57JR side lock cape gun, and a V. Haffner 20ga/58 Berdan carbine. Both were at the time of manufacture common military chamberings and commonly used on the Cape, and in Europe. Later there where larger rifle chamberings like the 500/450 as they discovered the hardiness of some of the animals they encountered on the Cape.

As stated above these things are rare today, but are just as usefull as they were when the folks setteled the Cape in South Africa.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Huvius
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Re: Please explain the differences [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #279797 - 25/03/16 01:17 PM

A couple examples at the upcoming Gardiner auctiom:

http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0027&LotRef=95



http://www.gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0027&LotRef=96


--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Buchsemann
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Reged: 12/12/08
Posts: 439
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
Re: Please explain the differences [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #279799 - 25/03/16 01:19 PM

fuhrmann,

Sorry about that, my forgetting the "Umlaut" over the "u". Thanks for that list of combination guns. I've never heard of or seen a "Spezialkleinvierling" or any of the five barreled combinations (fünfling) before. A bit much for me but wow, I'd like to see the mechanics of the actions.

Regards,

Mark

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

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