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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns
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Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia
Loading for defense?
      #278363 - 23/02/16 07:30 PM

Now i have nothing to do with any of this, being in Australia.

But curious - Do people load for defense with a staggered projectile type? Like Solid-HP-Solid-HP etc? Seems like it could be advantages, but then again i can also see it having hindrances. But people do it for DG, so why not the most dangerous of all - an armed intruder?

Thoughts?

For some reason i've been reading up on the .25acp (actually thinking it would be fun in a bolt action rifle built off a .22lr action? But thats a story for another day!) and that's where this thought came from. Would a HP offer better "stopping power" than a solid, especially in something as diminutive as a .25acp?

Am aware .25 ain't a good choice :P But its all theoretical.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Loading for defense? [Re: Ash]
      #278371 - 24/02/16 02:25 AM

I used to load staggered rounds in the .44 Wheelgun I carried when in uniform - so many decades ago. I loaded 27.0gr. Herc.2400 behind 180gr. Sierra JHC as I'd read a 180pound man would stop one with a centre hit.

Those were alternated with 275gr. SWC Keith-style bullets loaded with 21.0gr. Herc 2400 for smashing water jackets or penning doors, etc. of fleeing cars. Subsequent testing on autos showed me the 180's might be best at both jobs.

That load was listed as delivering 1,800fps. What they produced from my 4", I don't know - maybe 1,400fps to 1,550fps. They were quite snappy & auto penetration was better then the heavier WW Alloy cast bullets.

The 200gr. Speer "Flying Ashtrays" also did well on cars from my brother's New Service Colt, .45, when loaded with 10gr. Unique - only 1,000fps.

We also tested our M10 S&W .38SPL. service revolvers on the autos and used to say "Halt or I'll scratch your paint", then fire at the cars trying to get a bullet through the skin. They were not reliable even on doors, failing on most tires as well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Jim_C
.300 member


Reged: 09/08/14
Posts: 174
Loc: USA
Re: Loading for defense? [Re: Ash]
      #278382 - 24/02/16 12:55 PM

Quote:

For some reason i've been reading up on the .25acp (actually thinking it would be fun in a bolt action rifle built off a .22lr action? But thats a story for another day!) and that's where this thought came from. Would a HP offer better "stopping power" than a solid, especially in something as diminutive as a .25acp?



Having the dubious distinction of having been hit with both, I can't say as I noticed any difference. The HP carried a bit more fabric into the wound, but that was about it. Six or seven years ago I ran across a rifle built up in 25acp and did some test with the HPs. The ones available then began expanding at about 1,100 fps: far too fast for any pocket auto. Even then, they wouldn't always anchor a jackrabbit. And talk about a pain to load! Those little cases are around the size of a shotgun primer! Every other time I tried to seat a bullet, I'd pinch a finger between the case mouth and bullet.

About the only time I stagger loads is when carrying a single action revolver while walking the dogs. Then, I sometimes load a Glaser in the first chamber, skip the second, and load four flat-nosed cast bullets. Glasers do an impressive job of stopping skunks before they can spray, while the solids will take care of anything else I'm likely to encounter around here.

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Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia
Re: Loading for defense? [Re: Jim_C]
      #278464 - 25/02/16 05:33 PM

Thanks for the answers.

Jim, don't suppose you'd mind sharing the story??

Oh! And what rifle did you buy chambered in it?

--------------------
.

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Jim_C
.300 member


Reged: 09/08/14
Posts: 174
Loc: USA
Re: Loading for defense? [Re: Ash]
      #278515 - 27/02/16 02:44 PM

Ash, nothing special to the story, just a slow-rolling drive-by done by a fellow attempting to discourage me from making statements to the police. I thought he was lighting firecrackers at first, then realized something had "bit" my leg and arm. Neither injury was particularly disabling, but the next day they ached like any penetrating wound.

From the perspective of "stopping power", the .25 acp is handicapped by small size (frontal area) and weight, as well as low velocity. I seem to recall an article from Rifle or Handloader years ago that discussed the use of lathe-turned pointed bullets to enhance penetration, and I've seen some experiments using cast LBT-style bullets to try to increase frontal area, but no matter what you do it is still a tiny little bullet moving at (relatively) slow velocity.

I've had a couple of rifles in .25 acp over the years, the most recent (the one I tried handloading for) was a converted Winchester low-wall. I've seen a couple of custom insert-barrels for break-action shotguns as well. But really, for what you get out of it, it seems a waste of time/effort/funds. If I wanted a modern rook rifle I'd go with a .32 or .38. I've always thought a little bolt rifle in 30 carbine would make an excellent small-game centerfire.

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