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You guys are having an intresting debate and the same one I've been having with myself too.

By the way if JJ did the work it would be entered into MT's "books" This was sugested by JJ. He was very enthusiastic about looking at the rifle when we first talked and his previous ties with MT are the reason why. He said to get it on the "books" all he would need to do is call Marcel and get him to write a letter... I'm not sure of Belgian proof rules but it would seem that that kind of work would require repfoof. I'd be happy to shoot the gun without reproof but it would be something that should be done at some not too distant point.

As for balistics of the 458wm, it really for me comes down to the fact that a good bullet of 500gr or, 480gr .458" or .476" or close at 2050 or 2100 or better 2150 is going to do the job on anything and it doesn't matter one bit what the cartridge that fires it is named. (not in this paragragh discussing feed and/or extraction and ejection issues, or even really action type ) I personaly have zero experience here but about a hundred years of others' experience seem to prove this out.

From Kynamco's web sight they give the balistics of the 450NE 3 1/4" as a 480gr at 2150 out of a 28" barrel, ie a lot of blue sky for a shorter length rifle. Energy figures are 4930 again out of a 28" barrel and so lots of blue sky.

Their 470 numbers are for the 500grs OUT OF A 31" BARREL at 2125 and 5030. Talk about blue sky!

Looking at Federals' #'s the 470 is shown pushing 500gr at 2150 out of a more realistic 24" with energy at 5132 and I've been told there's some optimism in those #s but not that much, maybe 50 - 100fps.

Federals 458wm #'s are 500grs at 2090 and 4849 again out of 24". I've been told these #'s are actually pretty close with maybe 50fps of optimism.

My riffle has 26" barrels and I hoping it will see about those #'s with a load that will match regulation. Early indications seem to be that the barrels are together with the federal load but about 2" low. If so a simple change of front sights might do or if not I'll have to find a load that will work. I haven't shot the gun near enough and don't have near enough experience to say where I'll end up if I keep going with the 458wm.

I don't have a chrono but a fellow I know who loves good rifles has invited me down to his range to use his and I'm going to take him up on that. Anyone have any real world #'s for their rifles with loads that work?

I beleive that the problems with the 458wm are pretty much a thing of the past and modern powders and keeping your ammo fresh have overcome bad history whether you're talking factory or reload. In fact I've read here or on AR that Horniday's heavy magnum, advertised at 2260fps actually clocks those #'s out of a 22" barrel, and all within SAAMI specs. Won't do me much good since the chances that that stuff would match regulation are nil, but that kind of puts the kbosh on the idea of 458wm not being up to snuff. Those numbers beat the Kynamco #'s by a huge margin and are close to Lott factory #'s.

On the other hand If I was building a bolt rifle it would be in 458 Lott loaded to an honest 2150 though.

Anyway those are my thoughts for what they're worth.

By the way, whats the trick to taking good photos of rifles. I got my wife's digital out today and took my rifle outside ( overcast day ) and all I got were photos of what could have been a dark 2x4. Tried again with a light shining on the gun and the flash and the photos were hardly better. I would love to post good photos or send them to someone who would post them for me.

Thanks,

JPK