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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt
      #274480 - 04/12/15 03:14 AM

Yesterday I bought my first hammerless double rifle, a fairly old German boxlock in 9.3x74R. Signed by Robert Hübner, Darmstadt, Hofbüchsenmachermeister = master gunsmithto the court (of Ernest Louis, Grand Duke of Hesse). The rifle was made in Suhl immediately after WW1, but proofed by the Zella-Mehlis proofhouse in April 1919. Suhl was in severe revolutionary troubles then, governed by a "red" soviet. The rifle is in excellent shape, inside and out, except a few easily repaired scratches to the wood, a period stock extension and a perished horn-rubber buttplate.
Barrel length is 60 cm = 23.5". Weight without scope 3.58 kg = 7.9 lbs. It's a non – ejector with a conventional Anson & Deeley type boxlock action, built on a former Suhl double rifle action with long watertable, not a shotgun action like today's Merkels. The barrels are of chopperlump construction. The lockup is by double underbolting plus a doll's head with Greener crossbolt. It has a well figured stock with quite classic lines and a horn triggerguard. It fits me like a glove. For the engraving, see the photos.
I will probably replace the stock extension with a red rubber pad. To the original dovetail scope mount bases I will hand – fit rings to mount an elderly Hensoldt "Diasta-D 4x" scope. An old Weaver K-2.5 in Talley rings works as an impromptu solution as well. Now it's time to start load development for the old girl to get it ready for the next hunting season. I am annoyed about it, but I have to use "unleaded" bullets, so I will try the 250gr Barnes in front of N140 first.
Any comments?

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Gen_Hicks
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Reged: 15/10/12
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Loc: Lowveld, South Africa
Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: kuduae]
      #274495 - 04/12/15 06:10 AM

She is a dashing lady, nice rifle Axel.

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
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Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: Gen_Hicks]
      #274499 - 04/12/15 06:49 AM

Very nice, lovely scroll back and nice bolsters. Tasteful engraving.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #274500 - 04/12/15 07:06 AM

What a find!
All but 100 years young & still beautiful!
The hardest trick will be to try & match the patina on any work you do so that certainly will be no small challenge!
If anyone could do it mate you might just get it close enough to fool everyone.
Would love to see how it goes & how to 'age' the blueing!
Bet she's shoots alright too, whoever owned her took obvious care.
93x64mm

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: 93x64mm]
      #274503 - 04/12/15 08:17 AM

Quote:

The hardest trick will be to try & match the patina on any work you do so that certainly will be no small challenge!
& how to 'age' the blueing!


There is no "patina" to match. No need to fuss with the still perfect bluing. There is just a little bit of wear on the old scope mount bases. Just a few dents in the stock may be steamed out, without need of complete sanding and refinishing. The old stock lengthening and the perished buttplate, black horn with a red rubber insert, may be or not replaced some day. I hate the idea to "restore" an old gun to "as new"! An old gun may show it's history and should look like what it should be in the first place, a well cared for old gun. This rifle certainly does, as is! Any attempt to "restore" it will certainly ruin it. BTW, I got the rifle because the guy who found it feared some other would mess around with it, f.i. have the old mount bases removed and have a big, modern variable installed. Years ago I stared at an old Englisch dr in the process of such a restoration. Master Otto Weiss (of Hartmann & Weiss, Hamburg)noticed me shrugging and said: "yes I am sorry about that, but the customer wants it to be restored to new condition, restocked, reengraved, refinished all over. The customer is king, but you can easily restore an old gun to death."

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zgunbear
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Reged: 25/06/15
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: kuduae]
      #274524 - 04/12/15 02:40 PM

Beautiful old rifle. Someday I hope to get one like it.

--------------------
I have a 30-06 and a 45-70 side by side rifle by Baikal. I also modified a 12 gauge side by side into a slug gun. My problem has always been champagne and caviar tastes on a generic diet coke and fritos budget.

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: kuduae]
      #274532 - 04/12/15 04:17 PM

Quote:

It fits me like a glove.



That rifle was meant to come to you kuduae!
What a wonderful find.
I'm envious, and I'm sure many others here are too.
Can't wait to see more photos once you get the scope mounted.


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264
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Reged: 15/02/11
Posts: 615
Loc: NT Australia
Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: 4seventy]
      #274537 - 04/12/15 06:20 PM

Very nice !
Im about to try the ACP's , aussie copper projectiles. in 270 soft in my 9.3x74. They do a 232 and 250 as well. You can get them in soft medium or hard to cater for your requirements. Have a look at there web site.
Cheers Mick

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: 264]
      #274538 - 04/12/15 07:19 PM

Very nice Kuduae. I like the bolsters. I didn´t know the lead bullet ban had been passed in Germany ? On the cards everywhere I suppose best, Mike

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Yochanan
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #274629 - 06/12/15 02:28 AM

Magnificent rifle, I really like the engraving.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: Yochanan]
      #274670 - 06/12/15 06:15 PM

Lead ban in all of Germany?

If it ever looks to come in here, I will need to stock up on close to everything ... enough for the rest of my life.

Ffff lead free bullets and the political morons that demand it.


What a wonderful rifle you have Axel. What a lovely old rifle to be able to use as it is supposed to be used. ovely engraving, perfect for the German forests.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: NitroX]
      #274716 - 08/12/15 04:08 AM

There is no nation-wide lead ban in Germany, not yet at least. But some German states, like North Rhine-Westphalia, already banned the use of lead containing bullets for hunting. In some other states, like Hesse and my own Lower Saxony, the state forest administrations already prescribed unleaded bullets for hunting their own state forest grounds. As I hunt in state forests, I better keep to that silly order, unless I want to loose my free hunting opportunities. John, "stocking up" is no solution. I myself have ample stocks of conventional bullets. You may still buy and own them, but may not use them for hunting any more, So they are for target shooting only. BTW, I have used Barnes bullets for some years by now. In larger bores, 8 mm and up, I did not notice much difference on game.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: kuduae]
      #274718 - 08/12/15 04:22 AM

Beautiful rifle, I know you will enjoy it!

Are the scope mount bases from Krieghoff? Are they tapered, front to rear? Will you be able to find/fabricate rings for them?

Maybe you could come for a visit some day and we could both use our 9,3X74R double rifles.

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8X57
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Reged: 09/06/10
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: xausa]
      #274723 - 08/12/15 05:47 AM

Kuduae

What a great piece. Chopper lump, side clips, bolstered action and set front trigger. Cocking indicators, doll's head , cross-bolt and classy engraving. Seems the maker covered it pretty well...Great calibre too . Those boys in Suhl sure knew how to make 'em.

The first picture says it all. Perfectly proportioned.

That looks like a keeper.





Edited by 8X57 (08/12/15 05:52 AM)

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: 8X57]
      #274726 - 08/12/15 06:51 AM

Xausa, no, the scope mount bases are not Krieghoff bases , merely similar. They are not tapered and of equal width fore and aft. I think I can adapt other German mounts to them.
At the moment, maybe even permanent, I have a solution, at least for initial load development. By coincidence I found a set of low, 1" Talley rings in one of my drawers, maybe you know how they got there? These fit the bases in some way and allowed me to mount an old Weaver K 2.5 scope. At noon today the setup at least stood the first 6 shots, out in the woods at 50yards. Load 55gr VV N140 behind 250gr Barnes TSX. At least the rifle will be on target at the range. That load crossfired about 4" at 50 yards. So I will have to try heavier bullets or less velocity.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: kuduae]
      #274777 - 09/12/15 12:49 AM

Kuduae,

I'm glad to hear that my orphan rings were put to good use. The bases didn't look tapered. but it's hard to judge in a photograph. I have a Leupold Vari-X III 1.5-5X on my Krieghoff 9,3X74R double rifle and I like it a lot. Should I try to dredge one up for you?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: kuduae]
      #274779 - 09/12/15 01:03 AM

Quote:

John, "stocking up" is no solution. I myself have ample stocks of conventional bullets. You may still buy and own them, but may not use them for hunting any more, So they are for target shooting only.



Yes I understand that. But you need to "extend" my statement t the next step ... probably harder to do in Germany, not so hard here.

Hopefully not happen here, but who knows. Lead shot was banned for ducks here on non existent evidence of it being a problem based on "evidence" from some wetland somewhere in the USA ... Greenies never miss an opportunity to put the screws on us.


Quote:

BTW, I have used Barnes bullets for some years by now. In larger bores, 8 mm and up, I did not notice much difference on game.



Any issues showing on the barrels from using monometal bullets? ie OSR. I know this is an old argumentative issue on the various forums.

One reason doubles, thin barrelled firearms when using monometals are used with bullets with bands to reduce the problem nowadays.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: NitroX]
      #274782 - 09/12/15 03:32 AM

Nitrox, except some early experiments with first generation Barnes X bullets in my .416 Rigby, 20 years ago, I have used the banded Barnes TSX and TTSX copper bullets in both my 8x60S, 7x57R, 6.5x54 M-S and 9.5x57 M-S / .375 NE only for the past 3 years. I have experienced no problems so far, but I clean my barrels after about 10 shots. But I shy away from using monometal bullets made of harder metal like brass and have never tried such "trick" bullets like the "voodoo" Impalas. Alas, the wounding effect of a non-deforming long pointed bullet was discovered by the Germans more than 100 years ago, in 1903. This discovery then led to the introduction of light pointed full jacket bullets like the German 8mmS, the US .30-06, the British .303 Mk VII and the French Balle D (a monometal one, BTW)
Xausa, thanks for your kind offer, but in the future I intend to mount a German Hensoldt "Diasta-D" 4x scope, the best 4x scope ever made IMHO. For the time beingthe rifle is mounted with an old Weaver K 2.5 scope and your talley rings. Not the slightest modification had to be done to bases or rings. Here is a photo of the setup:

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8X57
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Reged: 09/06/10
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: kuduae]
      #274785 - 09/12/15 06:19 AM

Kuduae

Could you post a picture or two of the "Diasta-D" scope?

Thanks

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: 8X57]
      #280023 - 29/03/16 08:31 PM

Kuduae,

That's a lovely rifle exhibiting much of the best. Congratulations.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Buchsemann
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: CptCurl]
      #280065 - 31/03/16 05:57 AM

Kuduae (Axel),

Congratulations on your well constructed and attractive purchase, love those old 9.3X74R doubles.

I'll be looking forward to your report of first blood with the fine old piece.

Waidmannsheil!

Mark

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

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DarylS
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Re: Bought a 9.3x74R dr by Hübner, Darmstadt [Re: Buchsemann]
      #280070 - 31/03/16 09:58 AM

Nice- hardly a better rifle for NA or African plains game.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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