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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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BwanaBob
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Reged: 03/07/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
Mauser 98 in .303/270 Magnum?
      #274455 - 03/12/15 10:13 AM

I have just acquired a GEW 98 (marked 'Deutschse Waffen Und, Munitions Fabriken, Berlin, 1915') which, I was told, is chambered for the .303/270 cartridge. I am not totally sure of the chambering because there are no calibre markings on the rifle and the only other markings, which are on the barrel, are: 'Rohler Spez Lauf Stahl'. However, the bolt face has definitely been opened up for a .303 rim, the bore appears to be around .270 caliber and the chamber 'looks' like it is for an improved case. I plan to do a chamber cast shortly, to be sure.

I bought this rifle because it was so cheap that I couldn't say no, and I was going to strip it down for parts, but now I am fascinated by this rifle and want to learn more about it and I am going to keep it and reload for it.

During my research, into this rifle, I have learnt that, in addition to the thousands of SMLEs that were converted to .303 derivatives, some Mauser 98s were also converted - which is something I wasn't aware of. However, I have been unable to find any real information about our Aussie .303 derivatives, in general, let alone the Mauser conversions.

What is interesting is that this rifle has no modifications to the magazine and I can only conclude that the shooter has to be very careful about how to load the mag or there will be lots of jams with rims catching behind the rims of round still in the mag.

Apparently, the 303/270 was developed by a J. Black in the 1930's or 40's and that the 303/270 Magnum, which is essentially an improved 303/270, was developed for front-locking lug actions (Mausers and P14s). This rifle has now got my interest up about all of the Aussie .303 derivatives (I guess you can't call them wildcats as the ammo was once available as factory ammo).

So, I am hoping that someone, out there, might be able to shed some more light on my rifle and the chambering, specifically:

1. Any specific information about Aussie .303 derivatives, such as .303/22 (all versions), .303/25 and .303/270, including dates of introduction and who was responsible for those introductions and who was J. Black,

2. Any information about Mauser 98s chambered for Aussie 303 derivatives,

3. Any information about appropriate magazine modifications to make these rimmed cases feed reliably from the M98, and

4. Any information on availability and sources of reloading tools and components.

Thank you in advance,

Edited by BwanaBob (03/12/15 01:57 PM)

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LesLeeSpeed
.300 member


Reged: 14/11/13
Posts: 223
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Mauser 98 in .270/303 Magnum? [Re: BwanaBob]
      #274457 - 03/12/15 10:31 AM

Hi BwanaBob,
I picked up a GEW98K in 303-270 a few months ago. Also really cheap, with a left hand stock. My thoughts were to rebarrel to one of the magnums. Years ago I scored a 303-25 on a VZ24 action and rebuilt to 358Norma Magnum. A mate of mine has one built on an M17, yes an M17 rather than a P14.
As far as the 303-270 is concerned I used a 303FL die to size some once fired 303 cases and then a super simplex 270 neck die (as I had one) then super simplex seating die. This process worked fine and then just neck sized when reloading again. Simplex still sell 303-270 dies in their Master series, but if yours is an improved chamber you may have to get a set of dies made. Would probably cost more than the rifle, although if you fireformed standard cases and then neck sized after that you could probably just dump them if they became too tight to chamber and start again. Simplex themselves could probably give you a fair bit of information on the early Australian cases. Here is a link http://www.simplexreloading.com/
Good luck with your bit of aussie shooting history.
LesLeeSpeed

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BwanaBob
.300 member


Reged: 03/07/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
Re: Mauser 98 in .270/303 Magnum? [Re: LesLeeSpeed]
      #274459 - 03/12/15 10:48 AM

Hi LesLeeSpeed,

Thank you for the information. Does your 303/270 have any magazine mods to support feeding of the rimmed cases? And is yours the .303/270 Magnum chambering? What condition is your barrel in? My barrel is a little rough but still shootable.

I will take you advice and contact Simplex about the history, too.

cheers,
Bob

--------------------
"White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell)

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LesLeeSpeed
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Reged: 14/11/13
Posts: 223
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Mauser 98 in .270/303 Magnum? [Re: BwanaBob]
      #274462 - 03/12/15 02:09 PM

Hi Bob,
No mods as far as I know, and they are the standard case, not improved. The barrels in both mine and my mates are excellent.
Cheers
Les

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Mauser 98 in .270/303 Magnum? [Re: LesLeeSpeed]
      #274475 - 03/12/15 08:23 PM

Had a case, long ago, for the .303/.270 cartridge. I probably still have it. It was simply a .303 case necked for the .270 (.277") bullets. Also- it was stamped .303/.270 - or 303/270.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Gen_Hicks
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Reged: 15/10/12
Posts: 136
Loc: Lowveld, South Africa
Re: Mauser 98 in .270/303 Magnum? [Re: DarylS]
      #274494 - 04/12/15 06:05 AM

Sounds very simular to the RSA's 6mm Musgrave, although they where all build on rebarreled Lee Enfields.

I had a Stogos (Suhl) mauser in 303 with no modifications to the standard military magazine. It fed flawlesly

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BwanaBob
.300 member


Reged: 03/07/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
Re: Mauser 98 in .270/303 Magnum? [Re: Gen_Hicks]
      #274517 - 04/12/15 11:01 AM

Quote:

I had a Stogos (Suhl) mauser in 303 with no modifications to the standard military magazine. It fed flawlesly



But was your rifle modified from a standard 8x57mm action, either military or civilian?

I ask because, prior to WWI, Mauser did make M98 actions for Rigbys that had a slanted magazine and were specifically designed for the .303 British. Then, following on from that, a number of German gunsmiths started making M98s in .303 British, using the same action, but only for the German market - yes quite odd, don't you think?

Could your rifle have been on of these German made .303s with a slanted magazine?

I did see one of these rifles for sale, here in Australia, about ten years ago but, in the couple of hours that I went away to research it and find out what it was (I had never seen or even heard of one before) someone else bought it (drat, curses, damnation!). The price was only $450 and I should have bought it first and then researched it!!!!!

My .303/270 rifle has the standard M98 box magazine that was intended for the 8x57. I have been playing with it and it will take three (3) .303 rounds provided I am careful how I load them into the magazine, with one (1) 'up the spout' for a total of four (4) rounds. The rounds do not sit well in the magazine but they do remain roughly in place. It is not an ideal arrangement but it does seem to feed and eject reasonably well, although it could be a bit 'dodgy' when hunting in rough conditions. You wouldn't want to be facing down something that could 'fight back' with this rifle as it is.

It is likely that, when I have some .303/270 rounds to try, that they may be an even poorer fit, due to the smaller diameter of the projectiles, although the improved 'Magnum' case might compensate for that.

It is probably a bit of an overkill, but I am thinking of taking one of my spare M98 magazine/trigger guard assemblies and re-manufacturing it to duplicate the slanted magazine of the Rigby actions, at which point (if I do go this far) I will probably rebarrel the rifle to .303 British as the .303/270 bore is shootable but rough, and it would be closer to legitimate if it duplicated, or at least approximated, one of the Rigby rifles.

--------------------
"White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell)

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Mauser 98 in .270/303 Magnum? [Re: BwanaBob]
      #274530 - 04/12/15 03:24 PM

Quote:



I ask because, prior to WWI, Mauser did make M98 actions for Rigbys that had a slanted magazine and were specifically designed for the .303 British. Then, following on from that, a number of German gunsmiths started making M98s in .303 British, using the same action, but only for the German market - yes quite odd, don't you think?





cant imagine this, the 303 was more than exotic in germany

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BwanaBob
.300 member


Reged: 03/07/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
Re: Mauser 98 in .270/303 Magnum? [Re: lancaster]
      #274606 - 05/12/15 01:54 PM

Quote:

cant imagine this, the 303 was more than exotic in germany



I know that is seems hard to believe but if you have a copy, or have access to a copy, of the book 'Original Obendorf Sporting Rifles' by Jon Speed, Walter Schmid and Reiner Herrman, and if you go to Page 94 you will find a photo of a German made Mauser 98 in .303 British and the caption says:

Quote:

While this rifle was built on the "Short" Intermediate action with slanted magazine, developed for Rigby, it was not an export rifle but was sold in Germany.'



I might also mention that other Mauser actions were made in .303 British, too. In the March/April 2015 edition of 'African Outfitter' there is an article on the .303 British and on page 16 there is a photo of a Rigby Mauser .303 at the top of the page but, at the bottom of the page there is a picture of a Fraser "Velox" takedown rifle, in .303 British, which appears to be based on a Mauser 93 or 95 action.

--------------------
"White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell)

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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
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Loc: Finland
Re: Mauser 98 in .270/303 Magnum? [Re: BwanaBob]
      #274630 - 06/12/15 03:07 AM

Quote:

"I ask because, prior to WWI, Mauser did make M98 actions for Rigbys that had a slanted magazine and were specifically designed for the .303 British. Then, following on from that, a number of German gunsmiths started making M98s in .303 British, using the same action, but only for the German market - yes quite odd, don't you think?"

This mentioned rifle is very, very rare. Perhaps one of a kind so this "number" would very small.

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BwanaBob
.300 member


Reged: 03/07/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
Re: Mauser 98 in .270/303 Magnum? [Re: Igorrock]
      #274650 - 06/12/15 09:16 AM

Quote:

This mentioned rifle is very, very rare. Perhaps one of a kind so this "number" would very small.



Oh yes, German made M98s in .303 would be quite rare, and the book actually does describe it as a rare piece, but I was simply trying to determine, from Gunship, if his rifle was one of these German .303s but, unfortunately, he hasn't come back and answered my question, yet.

--------------------
"White men with their ridiculous civilization lie far from me. No longer need I be a slave to money" (W.D.M Bell)

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