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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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Gen_Hicks
.300 member

Reged: 15/10/12
Posts: 136
Loc: Lowveld, South Africa

461 Gibbs Farquharson
#273882 - 24/11/15 03:17 AM

Gents

Here is my latest acquisition, she is all original. Most unfortunately its not one with the engraved action, she is rather plain but the Selous side-plates is a bonus. One dont see them in original state often

What is this lady worth?

[image]https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3x2x8gciplk1ni/Photo%202015-11-23%2C%206%2010%2012%20PM.jpg[/image]

[image]https://www.dropbox.com/s/j3x2x8gciplk1ni/Photo%202015-11-23%2C%206%2010%2012%20PM.jpg?dl=0[/image]

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Gen_Hicks]
#273885 - 24/11/15 05:47 AM

The links arent working for me.
If you have trouble posting the pictures, you can email them to me and I will take care of it for you.
Looking forward to seeing it!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Huvius]
#273930 - 24/11/15 11:55 PM

Was able to pull it up.
Looks like an honest gun - one I would snap up for the right price.
I have no idea of how well they sell in SA but here in the US they seem to sell quite well and as you say, the Selous plates are a bonus.
It is very unfortunate that almost all of the ledgers for these great guns were destroyed. Wouldn't you just love to know who this rifle was shipped to?

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Gen_Hicks
.300 member

Reged: 15/10/12
Posts: 136
Loc: Lowveld, South Africa

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Huvius]
#273934 - 25/11/15 01:29 AM

She defenitaly has seen some action, she came from a collection of rifles that belonged to a hunter who imigrated to SA from Zambia.

You right, i would love to known who her first lover was

What is "the right price"? $6000?

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Bidgee
.375 member

Reged: 08/04/15
Posts: 711
Loc: Northern Rivers, NSW

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Gen_Hicks]
#273952 - 25/11/15 05:13 AM

What a great old rifle, it looks like it has seen a few hard campaigns up in Zambia over the years.

It would be lovely to know it's history and the game it has taken.

Cheers

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Rockdoc
.400 member

Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1213
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Bidgee]
#273955 - 25/11/15 05:18 AM

Gunship. Lovely rifle.

I would like to see some more photos. And would love to know its history.

Cheers, Chris

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Bidgee]
#273958 - 25/11/15 05:27 AM

I would probably pay $6K for that rifle as long as the bore isn't junk and there isn't anything really wrong with it.
The last couple 461 sporters I have seen sell have gone at around $10K but they were engraved best quality rifles (no Selous plates). They had their small issues but were overall very usable rifles and sold pretty quickly.
I would think that the Selous plates could add value for those of us who appreciate that part of Gibbs lore. I know Ross Seyfreid has suggested that maybe 20 or so Gibbs were made with Selous plates but they still seem to pop up now and then so I would think it could be more like double that number. Still, a very rare feature.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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TH44
.375 member

Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Huvius]
#273972 - 25/11/15 10:07 AM

Plus one with Huvius, nice rifle that has seen soma action for sure

I let one go at £1800 + 30% commission at Holt's in June, ($3600 total), but the bore had major issues (Washed out and pits) and I may not have got it for that price then
Nice ones fetch $6K here, although .303s and other "firearms" fetch less

My own Gibbs (a converted .461 MBL) was bought (from Holt's) as a WJ Jefferies rebarrelled to .500 BPE

More pics would be appreciated I am sure

TH44

Edited by TH44 (25/11/15 01:44 PM)

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Rockdoc
.400 member

Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1213
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: TH44]
#273973 - 25/11/15 10:12 AM

I like the idea of the Selous sideplates and would love to own one.

However, they must get hellishly hot in the sun! I would like to hear feedback from owners on this.

I think Sir Samual Baker's recommendation to Holland and Holland to strengthen the stock through the grip by extending the upper tang (top strap) to be of far more practical application and it has certainly become a symbol of a best quality dangerous game rifle. However these must have been available at the time Selous used his sideplates?

Edited by Rockdoc (25/11/15 10:29 AM)

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Rockdoc]
#273982 - 25/11/15 12:45 PM

Quote:

I like the idea of the Selous sideplates and would love to own one.

However, they must get hellishly hot in the sun! I would like to hear feedback from owners on this.

I think Sir Samual Baker's recommendation to Holland and Holland to strengthen the stock through the grip by extending the upper tang (top strap) to be of far more practical application and it has certainly become a symbol of a best quality dangerous game rifle. However these must have been available at the time Selous used his sideplates?

I couldn't say personally if they are hot in the sun but the accounts I have read claim that they are not at all. Maybe just un-noticed in the moment. I will find out some day when my Selous plated rifle is done (in shop for a rebarrel and a new forend) but the sun really is more intense up here in the high country and exposed metal does get haw-awt!

I don't know exactly when H.&H. started running the top strap over the comb but JAZ here on NE has an 8bore hammergun from 1887 (I think it was). I assume H.&H. did it on their heavier guns at first and then it became sort of a trademark for them so ended up as a high end feature on small bore doubles which really had no need for the extended top strap.
That, of course is no guarantee of preventing a breakage as seen here:
http://jamesdjulia.com/item/3384-358/

I cannot imagine a Selous plated Gibbs breaking through the wrist short of being stepped on by an elephant!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Rockdoc
.400 member

Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1213
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Huvius]
#273984 - 25/11/15 01:34 PM

Huvius, thanks for that link. I have seen a few smaller bore rifles (500/465 etc.) with what have been euphemistically described as 'setting cracks!" I bid on one such 500/465 through Holts in, I think, 2011. It had the peep sight that folded into the top strap. Went for about £8,000 or so over the estimate. As I was out in the bush at the time I had set an upper limit. It really needed a new stock and refurbish.

Perhaps the extended top strap may stop a catastrophic complete break and allow one to finish the hunt?

I am sure just about nothing would break a Selous plate. I remember reading about Selous repairing a broken (firearm) wrist with a wet hide which he states set like iron when dry.

Edited by Rockdoc (25/11/15 01:35 PM)

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Rockdoc]
#273985 - 25/11/15 01:53 PM

What are ballistics of a .461 Gibbs?

Just out of interest.

Rifle looks like a nice historical example.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: NitroX]
#273986 - 25/11/15 01:57 PM

Regarding Selous side plates and them heating up, I am sure I have seen an old photo of them covered with leather. Though it might be the Selous hide covering Rockdoc refers to. But I don't think so.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Rockdoc
.400 member

Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1213
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: NitroX]
#273992 - 25/11/15 03:23 PM

On one of Craig Boddington's videos, African Rifles I think, he interviews an elephant hunter whose name escapes me (pain relief!). The hunter has a Gibbs 505Gibbs with Selous sideplates. Highly polished or maybe chrome? It looks great!

Reminds of Jaws from James Bond when he smiles!

Would love to have a grand old single with sideplates, or a 505Gibbs.

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3555
Loc: Colorado

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: NitroX]
#273994 - 25/11/15 03:53 PM

Quote:

What are ballistics of a .461 Gibbs?

Just out of interest.

Rifle looks like a nice historical example.

According to Winfer, the 461 No.1 using a 480gr bullet and 85grs of black went about 1300fps.
Selous was reportedly a fan of the 540/75 load in the 461 No.1. I have used a similar loading in my 461 but didn't shoot it at anything past 100yds. No idea what the velocity was.
The 461 No.2 with a 570gr bullet using 90grs of powder got to 1350fps.
The express load with a 360gr bullet and 100grs powder went 1700fps.

That sounds pretty respectable to me!

Interestingly, Gibbs often sighted their 461s for both the heavy bullet loading and the express loading. Apparently, both shot well enough with the same twist Metford rifling. Given George Gibbs' history of match shooting and producing top tier match rifles, I wouldn't think they would turn out any rifles which wouldn't perform admirably.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Ash
.400 member

Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Huvius]
#274015 - 25/11/15 08:49 PM

Nice! Did you get it? I'd love to hear what else he was selling

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.

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Gen_Hicks
.300 member

Reged: 15/10/12
Posts: 136
Loc: Lowveld, South Africa

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Ash]
#274108 - 27/11/15 05:35 AM

Rockdoc

The PH's name that escaped you, is Richard Hartland. He had the side plates put on after his stock cracked. (Man Magnum magazine)

I have seen an old 375 by H&H that belonged to a Mozambiquian hunter with the wrist strapped with leather hide and it was indeed solid. He assured me the stock was craked straight through when he accidently dropped the rifle out of a tree. He soaked the leather in water, wrapped it tight around the stock and left it to dry. Very practical solution for a hunter in the middel of no-where

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crkennedy1
.375 member

Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Gen_Hicks]
#274112 - 27/11/15 06:33 AM

Great story Gunship!

--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING

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Rockdoc
.400 member

Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1213
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Gen_Hicks]
#274129 - 27/11/15 10:41 AM

Thank you Gunship.

I think the other 505 Gibbs owner was Barrie Duckworth. IIRC they had sequential serial numbers.

Great field repair. Was it a green hide that was used to wrap the stock?

I love the look of the Selous sideplates with their meticulously timed screws. Must be a lot of hours in that. Elmer Keith had one in the old G&A Big Bore Rifles magazine. Not sure if it was sold at Julia's auction of his rifles earlier in the year. Would have loved top have bought one of his singles, or doubles!

Cheers, Chris

Edited by Rockdoc (27/11/15 10:41 AM)

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Bergen
.224 member

Reged: 31/10/15
Posts: 17
Loc: England

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: crkennedy1]
#274130 - 27/11/15 10:45 AM

Very nice rifle.

I've always loved Selous side plates and have admired the phots I have of rifles equipped with them at great length.

However, I have heard of but never seen a rifle with a leather wrapped wrist. If anyone has pictures of a such a rifle I would appreciate a look at one. Always intrigued me as maybe a deliberate decoration to a laminate stock which are a nightmare to checker!

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Englishman
.275 member

Reged: 09/12/09
Posts: 62
Loc: Lot,France

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Bergen]
#276490 - 13/01/16 05:25 AM

Rockdoc, yes as has been pointed out it was Richard Harland with the rather garish nickel side plates.
As to the plates getting hot, I am surprised that people have found them to get hot as my rifle G, Gibbs with Selous plates has been out in over 40 deg C and they have never felt "hot", and mine are blacked, I did think they would be burning my cheeks, but no problem.How many G ,Gibbs were made with Selous plate, still a mystery, but they put £2 extra on the price back then!

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Wayne59
.400 member

Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Englishman]
#276492 - 13/01/16 05:52 AM

How about one wrapped with electrical tape and wire. also saw one repaired with a hose clamp.( just kidding) So far everyone I have seen with a side plate and screws was a repair they listed as a Selous side plate and it didn't help the sale price it killed it. I will say that I think they are really cool if they were done right and the patina is there. But for some reason people cant resist polishing the brass screws and plate.

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Englishman
.275 member

Reged: 09/12/09
Posts: 62
Loc: Lot,France

Re: 461 Gibbs Farquharson [Re: Wayne59]
#276757 - 19/01/16 06:07 AM

Well, I have never seen one wrapped in Duct tape, but I have seen one with green Elephant ear leather and shrunk to fit tight, and my Farquharson is certainly original and perfectly fitted, with blacked steel plates and timed screws all round, you really need to see a real original one to appreciate the workmanship and skill that goes into getting a perfect fit,very many hours to get it right, far more than most people would afford to pay.

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