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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive

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mart
.300 member

Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 107
Loc: Alaska

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: ESOTERIC]
#275248 - 18/12/15 04:54 PM

I picked up 200 Remington 303 British brass. The rims are all .527 and the bases .448. I trimmed them to 2.110 and used a 308 trim die to set the shoulder back, a 7mm-08 die to take the neck down and finally a pass through the 6.5x53R die set to zero clearance and I had the cases made. A final trim and they were ready to load. I loaded 100 with some Hornady 100 grain bullets I had no other use for and fire formed all the cases Monday. It made a good way to pass the time while I was waiting for the barrel to cool between groups on another rifle.

I have Hornady 160 grain RN bullets loaded with several different powders looking for 2200-2300 fps and the best accuracy. I'm trying RL-15, IMR 4831, AA4350, and N160. I'll have a group therapy session at the range Monday.

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AlanD
.275 member

Reged: 14/12/08
Posts: 55
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: ESOTERIC]
#275407 - 20/12/15 05:30 PM

British Gunmakers Volume 3 by Nigel Brown gives the following dates for serial numbers.
1907 - 11139
1908 - 11245
So if your rifle shared the common serial number numbers that Pape allocated, which seems highly likely, the rifle was sold in early 1908. Very interesting.

Mr Brown gives the following firm as the keeper of Pape records, Bagnall & Kirkwood, 28 Grey St, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 6AE.The firm also has a web site.

It will be interesting to see if the ledger book records the purchaser.

Is there any chance of one more photo shoeing the calibre and nitro proof, not quite fully visible in the first photo?

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

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ESOTERIC
.224 member

Reged: 07/02/13
Posts: 10
Loc: Wisconsin

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: AlanD]
#275625 - 25/12/15 04:58 PM

Alan,

After the holidays I will ask Roscoe to post another photo for me. Any other views wanted in addition to the caliber proof marks wanted?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: ESOTERIC]
#275626 - 25/12/15 05:16 PM

That little rifle - the word 'pretty' comes to mind, would be a nice rifle to hunt with - for the rest of my hunting years - however such a sentiment could be short lived, the next time another little beauty catches my eye.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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AlanD
.275 member

Reged: 14/12/08
Posts: 55
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: ESOTERIC]
#275696 - 27/12/15 11:55 AM

Quote:

Alan,

After the holidays I will ask Roscoe to post another photo for me. Any other views wanted in addition to the caliber proof marks wanted?

Just the one photo of the 6.5mm Nitro Proof mark will be great thank you.

I have some information regarding production of 6.5mm ammo in WW1 and would like to post some photos but can't work out how to do it.

Could some one let me have there e-mail address by PM and be able to post them for me please?

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

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ESOTERIC
.224 member

Reged: 07/02/13
Posts: 10
Loc: Wisconsin

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: ESOTERIC]
#276503 - 13/01/16 08:39 AM

AlanD

I have (finally), taken the additional photos of the proof marks of my Pape Model 92 Dutch Mannlicher 6.5 rifle that you requested. Hopefully Curl will again do me the great favor of attaching them to this post.

Also, for general information, I have included a couple photos of my Lancaster Dutch M92 6.5 rifle.

Edited by CptCurl (13/01/16 01:45 PM)

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mart
.300 member

Reged: 20/01/04
Posts: 107
Loc: Alaska

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: ESOTERIC]
#276653 - 16/01/16 08:53 PM

Boy, that looks to be nearly identical to mine. Albeit in much nicer shape. I'll have to do a comparison when I get home. I can only access this site on my phone on the slope so comparing the proof marks is difficult.

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Brithunter
.300 member

Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 184
Loc: Lincolnshire, England

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: mart]
#276672 - 17/01/16 06:28 AM

These are wonderful rifles to be sure. Sadly mine by Rigby of London was sold for about half what it should have fetched last year:-

http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsfor...vy#.VpqZd_mLS00

That thread has the photos of it from soem years back.

I still have a few en-bloc clips left for it and a couple of packets of Kynoch 256" Mannlicher sporting ammunition.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: Brithunter]
#276675 - 17/01/16 07:06 AM

Lovely

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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AlanD
.275 member

Reged: 14/12/08
Posts: 55
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: DarylS]
#276687 - 17/01/16 12:43 PM

ESOTERIC

Thank you for posting the extra photos of the proof mark.

The Lancaster certainly has superb wood. Is the Lancaster marked with a separate serial number that may have been applied by Lancaster? If so some Lancaster records are available and it may be possible to get some info on the original purchaser.

If you have any luck in finding out the details of whom the Pape was sold to (see my earlier post) I would be most keen to hear about it.

As to the crossed pennant proof mark. I am now in two minds about this. I have posted the mark on the German Gun Collectors Association forum, under the Gun and Proof Marks section. It appears that this may be a factory inspectors mark and not a British military proof mark - even though it is identical to that. If you check out the forum you can come to your own view. Personally I am sitting on the fence until further information comes forward...

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

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ESOTERIC
.224 member

Reged: 07/02/13
Posts: 10
Loc: Wisconsin

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: AlanD]
#276729 - 18/01/16 02:18 PM

AlanD

I contacted the folks your mentioned and they answered that they had no records for my Pape.

The Lancaster has the number A700 on the bottom of the trigger guard. The number B2068 is on the right side of the barrel shank.

Best,

Sherman

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AlanD
.275 member

Reged: 14/12/08
Posts: 55
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: ESOTERIC]
#277104 - 25/01/16 03:52 PM

Pityt that Pape did not have any records, worth a try anyway.

The company of Charles Lancaster Gunmakers holds some Lancaster records although they are incomplete. They used to have a web site but not anymore. They used to produce a letter or 'Authentication Certificate', which there was a fee for.
The company was/is owned by Ronald Wharton, the last e-mail address I had is wharton@bunduki.co.uk
If they have a record for this rifle the Lancaster number of A700 should make it easy to find, in the ledger books.

Regards

Alan

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ESOTERIC
.224 member

Reged: 07/02/13
Posts: 10
Loc: Wisconsin

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: AlanD]
#277426 - 02/02/16 01:43 AM

AlanD

I sent an email inquiry to the address you gave and received a reply from a Ms Margarita Booker. She said the records had no info on my rifle and that the numbers I gave referred to other types of weapons and that Lancaster had never sold a 6.5mm rifle.

I fear the lady is a bit confused as she also indicated that the Steyr date on the action was the serial number. It seem Lancaster would have recorded the sale of "bought-in" and retailed rifles that they put their name on. Perhaps they kept that info in a separate book and it has been lost. It is a shame that many records did not survive the ravages of time and world wars. Thanks for your help.

Sherman

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AlanD
.275 member

Reged: 14/12/08
Posts: 55
Loc: NSW Australia

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: ESOTERIC]
#277649 - 07/02/16 10:20 AM

I did spend a few hours in the workshop of Mr Wharton a number of years ago. I only met Margarita as Ron was sick that day. Every courtesy was extended to me, being left alone in the workshop (with a mug of tea)to go through the registers. I was only interested in the 1914-1918 and 1939-1945 periods. It was clear the records were not complete, but I did not take a note of what they did and did not encompass.

I suspect there may well be a record of the sale if your rifle received a Lancaster serial number, obtaining this if it still exists may have to wait until circumstances change in the fullness of time.

Had your rifle been retailed by the likes of William Evans you would have been able to get the information you want, have a look at the Lee Speed section on this forum.

Them's the breaks!

Regards

AlanD
Sydney

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Ireload2
.224 member

Reged: 11/08/13
Posts: 41
Loc: USA

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: ESOTERIC]
#279178 - 12/03/16 04:52 PM

Curl and Esoteric

Thanks for reporting the case head diameter of the Hornady .303 brass.

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BillfromOregon
.333 member

Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas

Re: New (to me) 256 Mannlicher [Re: Ireload2]
#338638 - 04/03/20 06:25 AM

Resurrecting a very deserving thread, having PMed with Mart recently regarding his rifle.
I have a long-forgotten Dutch M95 action headed back to me ...

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