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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
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Loc: fla
classic big bore on a p17 enfield.
      #272963 - 10/11/15 02:45 PM

Now that my highwall Winchester is almost done.i was digging around at my friends shop and he pulls out an p17 ears already milled custom bolt handle flat trigger guard 200$ could not refuse.been wanting a vintage cartage like 404 or 425westley. But already have the 45-120 ground pounder so was thinking of 500 Jeffery or 505 Lott.was considering the 585HE which is good deal price wise but not a classic.figured express sights maybe a full length rib.and an octagon barrel.something like blackjack Pershing would have carried if on safari any thoughts?

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Rockdoc
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: ducmarc]
      #272974 - 10/11/15 04:35 PM

Pardon my ignorance is showing, but what is a 505Lott?

The rest sounds nice!

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Sarg
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: Rockdoc]
      #272978 - 10/11/15 07:36 PM

I think that will be a .505 Gibbs ?

Show us some photo's, before & after please !

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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: Sarg]
      #272994 - 11/11/15 03:22 AM

Um sorry I was flipping back and forth on a bunch of different calibers.i meant Gibbs.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Bergen
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Reged: 31/10/15
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Loc: England
Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: ducmarc]
      #273016 - 11/11/15 08:31 AM

Firstly, great choice with the 45-120 Highwall. I have one myself but mines a Uberti so not quite so nice. You shoot smokeless or blackpowder?

Secondly, with that action you can go for pretty much anything. Do you want bigger AND more powerful than the 45-120 or just one or the other?
585 Nyati? Maybe not a true classic but definitely cult.

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Matt85
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: Bergen]
      #273025 - 11/11/15 02:29 PM

i shoot a 505 Gibbs and absolutely love the cartridge! i have developed a number of loads ranging from a 600gr cast gas checked bullet at 1850fps to a 600gr Peregrine solid at 2250fps. load development is tricky with the Gibbs because of its case size but ive found heavy monometal bullets to perform the best since they take up much of the case. the 500 Jeffery would probably be easier to develop loads for due to the smaller case. however the 500 Jeffery presents its own list of issues ranging from feed issues caused by a rebated rim to neck tension issues cause by its very short neck.

however a word of caution, both the 500 Jeffery and the 505 Gibbs can pose serious magazine issues. its no small task trying to get them to properly stay in the magazine due to their massive dimensions.

-matt

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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: Matt85]
      #273027 - 11/11/15 02:39 PM

We used 70grs of 4064 to proof the 45-120 no sticking and primer looked good.the Jeffery or Gibbs would be in the p17 action as A preww11 big bore replica.although me hubel has a very good deal for the 585HE.barrel,100 cases,and dies for 750. Figure will cost a little more than that for the Jeffery or Gibbs.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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DarylS
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: ducmarc]
      #273029 - 11/11/15 02:49 PM

Quote:

We used 70grs of 4064 to proof the 45-120 no sticking and primer looked good.the Jeffery or Gibbs would be in the p17 action as A preww11 big bore replica.although me hubel has a very good deal for the 585HE.barrel,100 cases,and dies for 750. Figure will cost a little more than that for the Jeffery or Gibbs.



I worked up a load for my brother's .45-3 1/4" Shiloh for 300gr. bullets. Mind you, his rifle has the nasty sloping & huge Black Powder firing pin, so the loads had to be OK for that action and pin.
62.0gr. Re#7 and 300gr. Hornady or Sierra. They clocked 2,260fps and shot cloverleafs at 100 meters off the bags, him shooting with the tang sight and a silver blade on the front

Lyman's # 46 lists 67.0gr. IMR3031 at running 2,409fps with the 300gr. Sierra at only 35,300CUP.

Lyman's # 46 lists 90.0gr. H4895 same bullet at 2,742fps at only 34,100cup and these are both listed for the afor mentioned Sharps and the Italian Rolling Blocks.

IMR4198 cannot approach these speeds without exceeding 36,000CUP.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: DarylS]
      #273095 - 12/11/15 01:29 PM

I have some 3031 for my 45-70 might try a lighter bullet. Wonder why no one has tried a 600 gr bullet to suck up some of the case capacity

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: ducmarc]
      #273096 - 12/11/15 01:35 PM

Any suggestions on a barrel company for the Gibbs or Jeffery.pac-NOR shows a 505 Gibbs but haven't found any others

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Bergen
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: ducmarc]
      #273112 - 12/11/15 05:32 PM

Lothar Walter do .505 barrels. 500 Jeffery would be easier simply as barrels are .510" so much more out there.


I must admit I've been tempted by 730gr bullets in the 45-120 http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/458-calibre?Page=3&Items=12

For now though it's 300gr and Ramshot Hunter.

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93x64mm
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: Bergen]
      #273147 - 13/11/15 08:35 AM

Had a chat to an old mate the other day, he came over to see how I was going. The same topic came up in regard to an old Winchester P14 that I have - should I ever convert it.
As I have a 500 in a Ruger No1, his thoughts were to go to a .450 Rigby as I have a .404 & to split the difference so to speak & yet stay with a more 'classic' calibre rather than a .460 G&A which even though is a very efficient cartridge, well its not one of the more recognised classics so to speak. No I'm not a real fan of belted cartridges & go to say a .470 Capstick, that's just me; even though I have a .308 Norma!
Have to agree with ol' mate there, its a more 'modern classic' choice I guess!
If you have a hankering for the 50's in a bolt then it would be a VERY hard choice for you to make, both have their pro's & cons; the .505 can punch thru 18" hardwood gum trees & then still keep going! I was privileged enough to have a crack a one a few years back - what a blast that was!
On the other hand I know Dave Commons who run CBE now; his .500 Jeffery (based on a P14/M17) shoots clover leafs all day long with no sign of a hiccup & can she rattle them out!
I don't envy you Ducmarc one little bit, it would be terrible choice to make.
Best of British so to speak!
Cheers
93x64mm

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lancaster
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: 93x64mm]
      #273172 - 13/11/15 11:04 PM

Quote:


On the other hand I know Dave Commons who run CBE now; his .500 Jeffery (based on a P14/M17) shoots clover leafs all day long with no sign of a hiccup & can she rattle them out!
I don't envy you Ducmarc one little bit, it would be terrible choice to make.
Best of British so to speak!
Cheers
93x64mm



you mean the 12,7x70 Schüler?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Rule303
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: lancaster]
      #273173 - 13/11/15 11:12 PM

A P14/M17 with its cavernous magazine and action length begs to become one of the classics or modern classics. Start at 416 Rigby and go up.

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93x64mm
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: Rule303]
      #273204 - 14/11/15 08:56 AM

Well I tip my hat to you Lancaster.........proved me 'wrong' again!
What's wrong with the metrics?
93x64mm

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ducmarc
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: 93x64mm]
      #273218 - 14/11/15 12:13 PM

Liking the 500 Jeffery a little. More for the bore size and may have a Lin on a barrel for right$ where's a good places for cases here in the states and always wanted the front sight band on it and the the sling swivel that attaches to the barrelmay go with a quarter ramp too.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Bergen
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: ducmarc]
      #273335 - 16/11/15 08:56 AM

Sound like you have some good ideas mate. Have a gander on http://www.hallowellco.com its great for some inspiration.

I think 500 Jeffery is a great choice. Obviously it has a slightly rebated rim but with a little work you'll get it feeding fine.

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Old_Glass
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: Bergen]
      #273344 - 16/11/15 11:55 AM

http://www.hallowellco.com/historical_gallery_magazine%20rifles.htm

That maybe tells who engraved these then!

http://imageshack.com/a/img903/57/2HG11v.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img907/5974/nLHr4e.jpg
http://imageshack.com/a/img911/3135/DEDgCS.jpg

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DarylS
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: ducmarc]
      #273349 - 16/11/15 12:28 PM

Quote:

We used 70grs of 4064 to proof the 45-120 no sticking and primer looked good.the Jeffery or Gibbs would be in the p17 action as A preww11 big bore replica.although me hubel has a very good deal for the 585HE.barrel,100 cases,and dies for 750. Figure will cost a little more than that for the Jeffery or Gibbs.



Further - if you want to shoot a VERY accurate black powder load in the .45 3 1/2" case (not totally impossible) try a 500gr. Hornady RN jacketed bullet with 100 to 110gr. of 2F and fill the rest of the case with either backer rod or 1/10" cards(monopoly board). This load also shot cloverleafs in my brother's Sharps. We mounted a 2 1/2X Bushnel Scopechief just for load testing.
Who'd have thought black powder would be accurate with jacketed bullets that have NO lube to soften the lube - they simply scrape it out each shot - seemingly. He also shot a moose with that load. Exited, almost full length penetration form just in front of the hip to exit out the chest. Moose made about 3 steps and lay down. Dead when we got to it. Right through the heart.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: DarylS]
      #275178 - 17/12/15 08:52 AM

Well sent a check to Pac nor for a short chambered threaded 505 Gibbs barrel.on the fence about lenght 22 or 24".ordered cases from buffalo arms to start on the magazine .went with the 505 its a slight bit less to reload for and seems to be plenty of bullets out there looks to be a slight bet better than Jeffery and no rebated rim.if this works out may do my other enfield in jeffery

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Altamaha
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Re: classic big bore on a p17 enfield. [Re: ducmarc]
      #275676 - 26/12/15 04:02 PM

450 Rigby. I am working on one, but using a CZ550.





50 Cal. fodder for the 'ol Enfields along with a 450 and a 460:



A few actions in the stable:



The beginning of a lot of machining:

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