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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
Posts: 645
Loc: Australia
Mauser Origins-Help with Proof Marks
      #271994 - 23/10/15 05:38 PM

I recently acquired a Mauser chambered in 7x57. it is a fully wooded "Manlicher" Style.
It is non typical in that the barrel length is 17inches!!, which normally would have turned me away immediately, indicating someones work with a hacksaw. But not so!
It is wonderfully balanced high quality rifle and points and carries beautifully.

Serial number is 168, and ALL large and small parts are so numbered.

It does present with a number of Mauser Model "M" characteristics. Namely fore end chequering, typical " Mauser" M end cap, spoon bolt handle( with underside serrations) and the normal two digit serial number on top of the bolt sleeve. There are no marking to indicate use of a commercial Mauser, or parts of, no left wall stampings, only the knurled reciever ring, which in fact may be applied to any ordinance 98, although not commonly

Now to its origins. I would seek help from any member more familiar with Austrian bulit rifles than I
Am I right in assuming Veienna proof in 1924??

Makers number appears to 3079??, the 3 is a little indistinct, if so who might this maker be, possibly one of the many Ferlach makers?

Also what does the little cartridge stamp represent. There is on top on the barrel Knox ( not visible ) a large "B" contained in a circle.

Clearly the British proofs( post 1925) and "non English Make" mean it spent most, it not all of its life in the British Isles.

I have just posted photos of proof at this point, will post more when I have it re assembled.

Thank thanks to anyone who can help.

Best
Eric



--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Mauser Origins-Help with Proof Marks [Re: paradox_]
      #272010 - 23/10/15 11:40 PM

You are right, your rifle was proofed by the Vienna proofhouse in 1924 as gun number 3079 proofed by them that year. No idea to the maker who assembled it on a scrubbed ex-military action, but as it was proofed in Vienna, not Ferlach, it was certainly made outside Ferlach.

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paradox_
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Re: Mauser Origins-Help with Proof Marks [Re: kuduae]
      #272059 - 24/10/15 04:23 PM

Thank you Kuduae.

If you consider the gun number to be 3079, what then do you consider the 168 number to be??

This 168 numering is definatley applied by the original maker in my opinion as it is marked on ALL large and ALL small parts including inside the end cap, grip cap, follower, etc.

Surely no foreign country identification/reproof process would go to that trouble and detail.Simply remarking the receiver ring and Barrel would suffice.
Could the 3079 number be a Vienna maker ID...similiar to the Ferlach maker ID process as below......just a thought.

20.xxxx Stefan Dusel
25.xxxx Martin Kruschitz
27.xxxx Simon Kalishnik
28.xxxx Peter Mischitz
29.xxxx Josef Mischitz
30.xxxx Josef Orasche
31.xxxx Michael Pegam
32.xxxx Anton Sodia
43.xxxx Johann Sigott
44.xxxx Walter Gratzer
45.xxxx Erich Achatz
46.xxxx Josef Schonlieb
47.xxxx Lorenz Schaschl
48.xxxx Josef Fanzoj
49.xxxx Franz Rp. Schmeid
50.xxxx Franz Schmeid
52.xxxx Valantin Rosenzopf

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: Mauser Origins-Help with Proof Marks [Re: paradox_]
      #272075 - 24/10/15 10:26 PM

Sorry, here is a misunderstanding. 3079 is NOT the gun's serial number, but the ledger number of the Vienna proofhouse. Such ledger numbers were marked by the Austro-Hungarian, Austrian and Czech proofhouses, and in different form by the German Zella-Mehlis proofhouse. They were given in the sequence guns were proofed,regardless of maker and model. So f.i. Vienna 1924 number 3078 may have been a Mannlicher - Schoenauer, 3079 your Mauser action rifle by an unknown gunsmith, 3080 a break-open single shot by Springer, Vienna.
The matching serial number of your rifle is 168, but this is another problem: The rifle was built on a scrubbed Gewehr 98 pre-1918 military action. These German military rifles were identified such: The top of the receiver ring was marked with the maker, f.i.Mauser, Danzig, Erfurt, DWM and so on, and the year of manufactoring. Each factory started it's numbers with #1 each year and continued to 9999. Then it restarted with #1 again, a letter a suffixed. So there were many rifles with the serial number 168: Factories x years of production.
Small gunsmithes did and do not have to number their guns in sequence. They are only required to give the gun a number that may be identified by their books. F.i., I have a custom made Mauser rifle # 10248 and know an also custom made Heeren rifle # 15944. In both cases the serial number is the birthday of the owner, Feb 10, 1948 and Sept 15, 1944!So your gunsmith, after scrubbing the receiver of the original markings, may have reused the last three digits of the original serial number as "his own", remarking them on the receiver, barrel and stock. This was commonly done to keep the fitted parts sorted when disassembled for finishing.
"House numbers" like the ones you mention were used by the Ferlach gunmakers only, not used by other Austrian or German gunmakers outside that town. They were the fire insurance numbers assigned to their houses originally. "Ferlach #1" was the church, #2 the town hall and so on.

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paradox_
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Re: Mauser Origins-Help with Proof Marks [Re: kuduae]
      #272124 - 25/10/15 06:00 PM

Thank you again Kuduae

Very useful information.

One last question, The Stamped cartridge on the bolt sleeve ( pictured above), and on some other small parts IS representitive of what, proof, maker????

Best
Eric

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Walk softly and carry a big stick

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Mauser Origins-Help with Proof Marks [Re: paradox_]
      #272142 - 26/10/15 12:16 AM

Quote:

The Stamped cartridge on the bolt sleeve ( pictured above), and on some other small parts IS representitive of what, proof, maker????


I don't know. Certainly not a proof mark. Maybe a mark of one of the many WW1 subcontractors who made smaller parts for the official makers of Gew98 rifles?

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