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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: NitroX]
      #273496 - 18/11/15 05:15 AM

The thing is the difficulty in finding a proper gunsmith that really knows what he's about with these older rifles. Trying to mount modern scopes on them just isn't quite as straightforward as you'd imagine.
Even attempting to understand the mount/rings catalogues from EAW Apel & Recknagel I found to be a challenge. A damn good engineer would be fine as long as one knows exactly what to explain in terms of fitting the ironwork to the barrel/receiver but more especially lining up and machining the rear ring mount leg so the scope alignment is bob on gives a man a good headache.

Most older mounting systems that may accept a scope with a 1" tube are simply set too high so in my case, getting the objective lens close down to the barrel and mounting as low as possible has been the priority.

Hopefully all will be achieved and I'll enjoy a brilliant rifle scoped so that my aging eyes can view the quarry comfortably.
ATB

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: NitroX]
      #279828 - 25/03/16 11:08 PM

Well here it is all done.

My 1922 6.5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer M1903 'Takedown' with it's 8x56 Schmidt & Bender with 30mm tube ready to go.

A brilliant job with exactly the right parts & set as low as it can go to allow minimum barrel clearance and the wing safety to operate.

















The exact info for this job is as follows:
So, the scope to go on my little beauty is a Schmidt & Bender 8x56 Klassik, 30mm tube, with the part numbers as listed below in case anyone should be thinking to do the same with a similar rifle, this is what will work and the scope will be mounted to give the lowest possible viewing height.

Front dovetail half saddle mount (in the white & requires blueing/blacking) located in front of the rear iron sight - Recknagel 50000-0617
Front dovetail claw mount fits into the half saddle mount - Ziegler Z238ZG0301
Front Objective scope ring - Ziegler Z075ZA0562

Rear locking base mount (in the white & requires blueing/blacking) - Recknagel 53035-0000
Rear scope ring with extended base Recknagel 56000-3026 - this requires milling to correct height and fitment into base mount (also in the white & requires blueing/blacking)

The total cost of these parts in the UK has been just short of £400 and are only available in the UK via the manufacturers main importers.
The work was done by an engineer at my place of work under my instruction/direction and then all the metal parts sent away for blueing/reblacking. The reason for doing this was after the polishing and cleaning to solder the front base to the barrel, it all looks rather messy and requires a near complete re-finishing. Looks great now though.

Finally, the end result is - I got the exact scope I wanted onto this lovely rifle while also preserving ALL the original manufacturers engraving work untouched. Magic!

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deeangeo
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Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: deeangeo]
      #280229 - 03/04/16 05:41 PM

I think the rear offset base mount and ring is almost identical to the one GG375 used on his M1903. & a few more pics...

I can't find a way to correct the first pic to a horizontal image. However if you save the file and view out of the forum the pic will rotate.












Edited by deeangeo (03/04/16 05:55 PM)

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MRobinson
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Reged: 29/01/06
Posts: 66
Loc: New England
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: deeangeo]
      #283603 - 08/06/16 03:53 AM

Not what I would have done, but congratulations on getting yours set up the way you want it, which is really all that matters.

The build quality seems excellent.

I hope she shoots well.

--------------------
Mike

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Iowa_303s
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Reged: 22/03/13
Posts: 1016
Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: MRobinson]
      #283630 - 08/06/16 12:49 PM

Nicely done! I wish mine was as nice as yours.
Mine has a side mount that is drilled and tapped into the left side wall.
Oh well, I got mine at a good price and I love it!

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"

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lonewulf
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Reged: 06/08/12
Posts: 227
Loc: South-East Otago, New Zealand
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #283635 - 08/06/16 07:36 PM



Handsome looking rifle that's for sure. Lot of hard work but well worth it by the looks of things. Don't forget to post some groups after you get it out to the range.

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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: lonewulf]
      #283785 - 12/06/16 09:09 PM

I am well satisfied with the scope and mounts. They work well. I can also use the open or peep sight if I want. There's no interference of view from the front claw mount at all.

At present, groups are nothing special to write about...using the 160gn Hornady RN Interlock, they're coming in at around 1 1/4" - 1 1/2" MOA with the first two loads I tested.
Good enough for me to take three feral billy goats at 75yds. They dropped like stones.

Next to try is find out whether backing off propellant charge gives an improvement with that bullet. I don't really want to adjust seating depth as the bullet is 'roll' crimped into the cannelure.

Also on the list is the 140gn Hornady SST. This round I know doesn't load or feed as smoothly from mag to chamber, but it's passable. I haven't actually fired any of these rounds yet as I was waiting for Lee to supply a custom made Factory Crimp Die...that's now arrived & I crimped the rounds yesterday.

Incidentally, the guys at Lee Inc. were very helpful and turned around the custom die within the eight weeks they quoted for supply. The only problem I had was mailing an inert round to them. Royal Mail wouldn't touch the item. Fortunately, A good friend in the USA was on vacation in the UK and carried the round in his hold baggage and mailed it when he got back to the USA.
Lee returned the inert round to me along with the new die.....and Royal Mail handled the return!!! funny that!

We shall see what happens! - Hopefully, next weekend.
Cheers, deeangeo

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: deeangeo]
      #283815 - 13/06/16 07:16 PM

I suggest you might try getting an exact measurement of the barrel's bore and groove diameter, either by slugging the bore or making a cast. In my experience, factory rifles in 6.5X54 M/S tend to run .268" in the bore, rather than the more usual 6.5mm diameter of .264". Hornady makes .268" bullets for use in the Mannlicher Carcano rifle, and you may be able to locate some in the UK.

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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: xausa]
      #283840 - 14/06/16 03:54 AM

Quote:

I suggest you might try getting an exact measurement of the barrel's bore and groove diameter, either by slugging the bore or making a cast. In my experience, factory rifles in 6.5X54 M/S tend to run .268" in the bore, rather than the more usual 6.5mm diameter of .264". Hornady makes .268" bullets for use in the Mannlicher Carcano rifle, and you may be able to locate some in the UK.



Certainly something to check as soon as my gunsmith returns. I think slugging the bore is the easiest to do, but he can make the decision. We shall see what the result is in due course.

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26999
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: deeangeo]
      #283854 - 14/06/16 10:38 AM

If loading the larger .268" bullets, make sure they are not overly tight in the chamber anb that the ctg. case can release them without them being pinched tightly.
If you fire a regular full power load, then shove a .268" bullet into the just fired case and it fits with a tiny bit of slack (.001" or more)- perfect, you can use the larger bullets as long as your brass does not get thicker.
If it is a bit tight, you can outside neck turn the cases to make them fit properly.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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deeangeo
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Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: DarylS]
      #283863 - 14/06/16 03:33 PM

Thanks for that info Daryl.
Just to check - when you say 'outside neck turn', is this because the larger bullet dia. when inserted to case neck, may push out the dia. of the case neck, therefore be tight/not possible to chamber?
Cheers, d

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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Brithunter
.300 member


Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 184
Loc: Lincolnshire, England
Re: To 'scope or not to 'scope & which mounts if I do ??? [Re: deeangeo]
      #283889 - 15/06/16 01:06 AM

If you check original Swedish Mausers in 6.5mm you will likely find 0.268" dia grooves and a nice 0.256" bore! As yet I have been unable to find out where this "rule" that rifling grooves are only 0.004" deep has come from. Both of the Steyr made Mannlichers in 6.5mm had 0.268" grooves and 0.256" bores as well that is a pre 1924 Schoenneur and a Mdl 1892.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

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