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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia
Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria
      #264404 - 30/04/15 09:32 PM

I went up to Ban Ban Springs a couple weeks back and caught my first Bandy Bandy.
Both these species of snake are some of our lesser seen nocturnal little guys.

First up heres a couple pics of a Carpentaria snake (Cryptophis boschmai). Found 2 of these.





And here's the Bandy Bandy (Vermicella annulata). I like these little guys.



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DarylS
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Ash]
      #264412 - 01/05/15 01:12 AM

Both poisonous? I expect the Bandy Bandy snake is for sure - just as our (NA) Coral Snakes are, merely red and white instead of black and white - similar size too.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Bidgee
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: DarylS]
      #264416 - 01/05/15 03:59 AM

Nice and unusual photos Ash.

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Ash]
      #264418 - 01/05/15 05:13 AM

The first is A nasty customer from what I found.

http://snakedatabase.org/species/Cryptophis/boschmai

The second not so much.

http://www.snakecatchers.com.au/Bandy_Bandy.php

My Grandfather always said the best way to kill a snake is to cut off it's tail.

Right behind the head.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: AkMike]
      #264419 - 01/05/15 05:43 AM

Quote:

The first is A nasty customer from what I found.

http://snakedatabase.org/species/Cryptophis/boschmai

The second not so much.

http://www.snakecatchers.com.au/Bandy_Bandy.php

My Grandfather always said the best way to kill a snake is to cut off it's tail.

Right behind the head.



Agree with your Grandfather 100%...

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Sarg
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Ripp]
      #264427 - 01/05/15 08:27 AM

Didn't know you were into Herping Ash, I've seen lots of snake over the years working in the outback & don't know what half of them were !

Don't think I have seen that Bandy Bandy before (typical Aussie name) named after the Bands, looks cool ?


Now guys Ash may love these snakes, so you speaking of how to kill them on his tread may be a little off !

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Ash
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Sarg]
      #264435 - 01/05/15 02:47 PM

I've only started this year, Sarg. The goals to catch all Australian snakes (catch, handle, photograph, release). It's pretty interesting, and i've only been starting on the less venomous guys. So far the pythons been the most tricky lol. Climbing back up itself. Learnt from that (first snake) to not take your eyes off the bitey end. And that's why i started on non-venomous. Working towards the venomous ones now. Hoping to get my first Red Belly before Winter fully sets in.

Ha, no worries about them getting killed - i laughed at the Grandfathers quote, and i'll be sure to tell some people it who don't like snakes.

I don't harm them myself, and the goals to be able to relocate them at work - but everyone kills them before i know they're around.

Thanks for the comments guys.

I don't know why they're called Bandy Bandy, but i'd be willing to bet Sarg is right. If it ever stops raining i'll find one of the little blind snakes they feed on (flip enough logs or rocks in the backyard can usually find one).


Funny story about that Bandy. I was with a few younger people (16, 12 and 18). And found it and they all thought it was cool. And i was like "woah you never see these things!" So figured all the parents would think it's neat too. Nope! They all freaked out demanding i kill it. So i took it back and let it go. Was no the reaction i was expecting.

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Claydog
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Ash]
      #264437 - 01/05/15 04:04 PM

I think its unfortunate most people still have this attitude to snakes, my wife included. I love having pythons in the shed to keep the rats at bay and much prefer them to cats. The browns I relocate. Below is a photo of an olive python that liked Toyotas. Taken on a station out of town.

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AkMike
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Claydog]
      #264438 - 01/05/15 04:36 PM

Guys we don't have any snakes here and I've lived here for many years, so IF I ever saw one I'd probably scream then run like a little girl.
Luckily I never saw any when I hunted the NT a couple of years ago.

But by the same token you'd probably get a bit edgy with some of the big brown fuzzy critters that are no big deal to me.

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"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Ash
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: AkMike]
      #264441 - 01/05/15 06:07 PM

I'm MUCH more comfortable around venomous reptiles than i would be in areas with big mammalian carnivores...

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Ash]
      #264465 - 02/05/15 08:54 AM

Its always a fright when you don't see something first & nearly thread on it - especially a snake when you're walking through the bush in long grass, yep long duds & good boots are a necessity over here.
Dad always said to stop, back away slowly & walk around them or stay still & they'll go away, well in my experiences they have pretty much do just that. When I was a young lad I had a taipan about an inch for my bare foot at our old house, just stayed still & he considered me no treat so he just ambled off on his way.
Ash, carpets are no problem at all; a simple garden rake will hold the head down until you grab behind the head! Browns (& taipans) are a different kettle of fish altogether, deliberately disturb them & they will stand up chase you - seen browns over 6 foot long & as thick as your wrist.
We've always had red heelers & they're always on the go for mice, rats etc.(bloody snakes too)
I won't let them go near them if I know that its a brown or taipan. They're just too fast & one bite they're dead in minutes if that. Funny thing is the dogs don't seem to worry carpets for some reason!
Oh by the way gents, do you know that snakes don't like water either?
Especially at 100 degrees Celsius for some reason?
93x64mm

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Rule303
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: 93x64mm]
      #264468 - 02/05/15 09:59 AM

Ash good photos. Have never seen a Bandy Bandy have most likely have seen a Whip but thought it a brown.

Claydog thats a decent sized rat catcher you have in the Tojo.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Rule303]
      #264484 - 02/05/15 11:00 PM

I much prefer having snakes around to having mice, and the snakes do a pretty good job on the mice. Last year, however, I found a foot long rat snake in the basement stuck to one of the "sticky pads" my wife puts out for mice. I first thought he was dead, but then I noticed some movement, so I took him and the pad outside and starting with his tail carefully pulled him loose from the goop. He took off like the proverbial bat out of hell when released. I wondered what he might have to tell his friends about his experience.

Earlier, my wife found a scarlet king snake in the basement. She first thought that someone had dropped a bungee cord. They are red, black and yellow striped, like the venomous coral snakes, but unlike the coral snakes, the black stripes adjoin the red ones. I captured this one by holding a dust pan next to him, which he obligingly crawled into and allowed me to relocate him out of doors.

The king snakes are harmless, except to other snakes. I once saw one wrapped up in a struggle with a copperhead. I didn't stay around long enough to see which one won, but I suspect it was the king snake.

As far as venomous snakes are concerned, we have copperheads and cottonmouth water moccasins around here, but no rattlesnakes. Neither one is very aggressive, but I have passed moccasins from time to time in my rowing shell, and didn't pause long enough to see if they would like to come aboard. Moccasins can be distinguished from common water snakes by the fact that they swim with their bodies on top of the water. They are also very hefty snakes. One three feet long can easily be as large as my forearm.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: xausa]
      #264485 - 03/05/15 12:37 AM

Claydog - is your puppy inside that python?

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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karamoja
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Reged: 25/04/12
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Loc: Herefordshire, GB
Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: DarylS]
      #264522 - 03/05/15 10:29 PM

My dad came back from Namibia a few years ago. He said that while they were hunting kudu - they were closing in on a good kudu, when suddenly he felt the bushman trackers hand vigorously pulling him backwards. He then grabbed a rock and threw it. He then ran up and drove his stick into the ground. This apparently happened very fast so he had no idea what was going on. My dad said he did with it complete hatred or disgust and seemed to go on longer than needed just make sure. It turned out to be a cobra of some kind. My dad was quite interested and wanted to look and maybe skin it, but the tracker obviously wanted to get out of the area asap. They got the kudu too.
Karamoja

Edited by karamoja (03/05/15 10:31 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: karamoja]
      #264536 - 04/05/15 05:19 PM

The only snakes I have seen - in Australia - in the wild have been:

Brown snakes - lots of them, on the farm and occasionally when hunting or out in the bush. Fell on top of one once, it was underneath my back when sliding down a river bank and slipped over, felt it with my hand and jumped about twelve feet. Numerous times have done amusing hops and skips though the grass when seeing one a few inches from my foot when stalking through the grass. I don't like them near home but when they are around the mice and rats in the sheds are much reduced.

Red bellied black snakes - seen a few near home. Try not to kill these as they kill other snakes.

Taipan - seen one in Arnhemland. It slid a metre behind Matt Graham and Steve when butchering a young buff bull, and a metre in front of me behind them. They never saw it.

Death Adder - saw a dead one squashed on the road, on the coast. Did not know they were there.

Python of some sort - seen a couple on the roads in the NT.

Picked up an unidentified snake in a creek one day out of the water. Thought it was some bark but it happened to have eyes. Was probably dead. Was about seven at the time.

I think that is it, from memory. They are around and not as common as thought having reasonable territories and also avoid humans. A nuisance for dogs and cats. Probably lost two or three cows years ago to snake bites too.

A sheep property we used to have as a kid had fun throwing rocks as snakes in an old dry underground water tank/cistern. The snakes would slide into the inlet holes into the tank and fall in, the sides being 12 or 15 feet deep. Sometimes several snakes, almost always being browns in there. Also the cold ruined cottages used to have browns in them as well, in the ceilings or behind sheets of iron. We used to look for them. But never handle them.

Obviously a warning is needed on this thread. Do not handle poisonous snakes if you don't not know what you are doing. And don't handle any snakes if you can't identify them as poisonous or not.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (04/05/15 05:24 PM)

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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia
Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: NitroX]
      #264547 - 04/05/15 07:11 PM

Nice pic, Clayton! Those olives get pretty big.

Karamoja - Heh, the natives sure do hate snakes in all the books i've read also.

John - When i collect fossils it mainly walking down river beds with the odd pool of water. Usually see 2-3 red bellies a day. They're mellow fellows aren't they?

Good idea on the warning, but i'm working out what i'm doing as i go along, slowly working my way to more venomous. Bandy's are mellow and no real risk, i didn't touch the Carps as i wasnt sure if they were browns (but they were so placid i was sure they couldn't be, based off temperment).

Your story about falling on a brown..Eegads! I'm suprised you didn't jump higher! I would have!
A friend was checking the yabbie traps and he called out and went "hey theres a brown snake here". So i came over to have a look, and it was stopped a little up the bank (about 3m) from him watching. He then turned to get the trap. Instant S from the brown. They're so angry all the time. I was like "hey, stop" to him and he turned and went "urgh" lol. Good times.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Ash]
      #264548 - 04/05/15 07:32 PM

I've had an aggressive red belly black, but usually not as aggressive.

Re browns being aggressive, usually in my encounters with them, they flee pretty quickly too. Several years in a row, while doing Summer fungicide spraying and filling the sprayer tank, sitting in the shade of a tree while the tank fills, have had a brown slide out from a tank or pile of posts to within a couple of metres of me, when they realise I was there, an immediate turn and back the way they came from. Just as well, as my immediate thought it where is the closest long handled shovel or shotgun. Don't like them near the house of sheds at all. One found in the front garden, was seen a minute later a hundred metres away getting away. I was still looking for it in the front garden at the time. Had a brown as a "pet" for a while. The dog found it on the back verandah behind some furniture. Was only a young one about 8 or so inches long. In the end decided it was silly to keep as if it got out of the aquarium and someone was bitten, it wouldn't feel good. Last one seen this summer was a full size one trying to get into the truck shed.

The only times I have seen them strike was on my first GSP dog, when he was struck a couple of times on the shoulder. I was about 50 metres away. The snake must have been at full distance and never got his fangs in, as the dog wasn't harmed. The snake lost its head to a 12 gauge blast however. My current GSP survived a brown encounter too, cleaning up a pile of railway sleepers with the frontend loader, a brown fell out. Shot it in the back with a .22 Magnum, the dog came running to see what the fun was, yelled to stop, he kept coming, but ended up stopping right over the top of the snake ... it is amazing how far you can throw a dog by grasping it by its skin and giving it a toss ...

We have a couple of snake laboratorities nearby, one which deals with anti venom production for a lot of snakes from around the world and the other I forget but never knew it existed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: NitroX]
      #264549 - 04/05/15 07:37 PM

The bandy bandy snake looks a lot like the coral snakes we have in Australia too, in Queensland? Red with yellow stripes? I believe they are quite poisonous?

I remember reading about snakes in Australia vs New Guinea. Australia has about a hundred species with the vast majority poisonous and the top few among the most poisonous six of the world. New Guinea had a much higher number of species but the vast majority non-poisonous. Must be some reason for the difference?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia
Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: NitroX]
      #264553 - 04/05/15 09:20 PM

Think our Coral snakes are about the same as a Bandy Bandy.

http://www.snakecatchers.com.au/Australian_Coral_Snake.php

Never seen one though. Would like to though!
There was a fellow named Bill Dunmall. He was a friend of a friend and died in the early 2000's of cancer. But the friend (he's 83) and Bill used to travel Aus meeting aboriginees when they were still living mainly in tribes and catching snakes. He has the snake Furina dunmalli named in his honour (i think he may have discovered it?). So he's my inspiration.

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DarylS
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Ash]
      #264562 - 05/05/15 01:14 AM

Overall, there are 16 species of Old World Coral Snakes and 65 species of New World Coral Snakes - Wikkipedia.

Red next to Black is a friend of Jack.
Red next to Yellow will kill a fellow.

Just one of many colour combination sayings concerning non-poisonous varieties and poisonous ones.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Gaff
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Reged: 05/08/11
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Loc: Darwin NT
Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: DarylS]
      #265409 - 23/05/15 12:44 AM

Hey Ash, I too have an interest in snakes and have caught quite a few, with the non venomous ones I dont pin them and grab them tight behind the head as this fires them up, I get around behind them and grab them gently about 2/3 rds of thier length back and they are usually pretty docile and easy to handle.

I have caught, olive, water, black head, carpet, and childrens pythons, none of them have tried to bite except one firey little carpet that grabbed me twice. Have also caught golden tree snakes, brown tree snakes, slatey greys, freshwater snakes, curl snakes, yellow faced and black whipsnakes, a few other little nocturnal ones and eastern browns.

Though not dangerous the brown tree snakes, freshwater snakes and slatey greys can be snappy.

I dont try the gentle approach or even try to tail the truly dangerous ones like browns, they get pinned and held tight or left alone.

Have fun but be careful mate as they can f#!k you up.

cheers

Edited by Gaff (23/05/15 08:42 AM)

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Rule303
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Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Gaff]
      #265441 - 23/05/15 08:40 PM

Only times I have seen browns act agressively is around mating time and when coming out of Hybernation and you damn near stand on them.

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Ash
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Loc: Australia
Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Rule303]
      #265446 - 23/05/15 11:16 PM

Thanks for the advice, Gaff (honestly appreciate it). I have no teacher or mentor for this, just taking it one at a time and being rather careful.
Coming into winter now i guess the "season" will be ending.

Can i see what you use to pin them? I've gotta make something for that still.

Yeah..permanent injury from the venom isn't a fun prospect, that's for sure.

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Gaff
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Reged: 05/08/11
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Loc: Darwin NT
Re: Bandy Bandy and a Carpentaria [Re: Ash]
      #265447 - 23/05/15 11:44 PM

Ash I have a bit of 10mm steel rod about 1m long with about a 100mm right angle bend on the hold down end and a wooden handle on the top.
To be honest I havent used it much, only on one whip snake here in my yard and a couple of browns down south most of the ones I have caught have been random finds while doing something else not out specifically looking for them.

On another note, goannas are probably harder to handle than most snakes and can be more aggressive and do some damage, just tail them and dont try to grab them around the neck as they will scratch the shit out of you lol.
Blue tonges and sleepies just a hand under thier belly, dragons , tail in one hand and the other under thier belly when they settle a bit.

Edited by Gaff (23/05/15 11:52 PM)

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