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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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CZ_hunter
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Loc: Prague, Czech Republic
Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: ducmarc]
      #288487 - 30/09/16 07:32 AM

I think the 450/400 3 1/4...

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CZ


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Claydog
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: CZ_hunter]
      #288489 - 30/09/16 08:02 AM

.500 for sure

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3DogMike
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Claydog]
      #288502 - 30/09/16 12:44 PM

.577 3" with RL-15 equivalent of the H&H original turn of the Century .577 Nitro Express 90 Cordite 650 bullet.
It's "a stopper" on New Mexico Jack Rabbits and Colorado Yellow Bellied Marmot in my 1902 Webley.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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casper50
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: 3DogMike]
      #288599 - 02/10/16 07:14 AM

404 Jeffery. Took my largest bull moose with it. Really like it.

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Postman
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: casper50]
      #288600 - 02/10/16 08:03 AM

Favorite NE cartridge?? Rediculously bizarre question indeed!!!!!

And my answer???

All of them!!!!!!!!

I have a .500NE that accompanied me on my 1st DG hunt and accounted for my 1st Cape buffalo..... And I'm still glowing all over from the experience!!!!

I also have a .450NE, a 450-400NE and a 375 Flanged magnum..... Not sure that the last really qualifies, 'cause it's only a medium bore..

The .450NE is in a bespoke rifle that will likely prove to be my financial downfall, but as they say, out of my cold dead hands!!!


The 450NE will accompany me on my next hunt unless I wear the barrels out shooting it at the range before I can afford my next trip!!!!!!

Edited by Postman (02/10/16 08:05 AM)


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nicky93
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Reged: 09/07/16
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Postman]
      #288608 - 02/10/16 01:47 PM

Mine would definately be the .470 Nitro.

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grandveneur
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Postman]
      #288609 - 02/10/16 03:14 PM

Quote:

Favorite NE cartridge?? Rediculously bizarre question indeed!!!!!






Why ?


That was the initial question :

what's everyones favorite nitro caliber flanged over 40cal. with ease of reloading ie.reasonable priced die sets and cases.?


Taking account of ease of reloading , reasonable priced die sets and cases and availability of bullets , it's IMHO the 470 NE !

The 500NE is may be a alternative , the rest is often difficult to get , expensive and sometimes not easy to reload.


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gryphon
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: grandveneur]
      #288610 - 02/10/16 04:29 PM

.505 from Mr Gibbs,why? Because its a mean mother made for mean mutha`s

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Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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gryphon
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: gryphon]
      #288611 - 02/10/16 06:43 PM

Mean mutha`s meaning big and bad DG

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Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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HistoricBore
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: gryphon]
      #288615 - 02/10/16 10:22 PM

I like my cased takedown Savage 99 in .22 Savage High Power, made in 1932 and retailed by Manton of Calcutta. It was owned by a British Army Captain in the Medical Corps.

Its 70 grain bullets are not much deflected by wind and is accurate to 300 yards with iron sights.

But I'm obviously just a wimp compared to you chaps...


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fsrmg1
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: HistoricBore]
      #288617 - 02/10/16 11:03 PM

I've always had a warm spot for the .500 - 3 1/4", along with the .405 WCF.

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Cheers,

Rich


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Postman
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: grandveneur]
      #288618 - 02/10/16 11:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Favorite NE cartridge?? Rediculously bizarre question indeed!!!!!






Why ?


.




Why?

Because they are all very cool!!!!! .

I think that my twisted sense of humour does not translate well into the written word.....


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Rockdoc
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Postman]
      #288663 - 04/10/16 09:49 AM

Don't have a favourite, haven't owned enough to qualify as having an informed opinion!

However, I did like my 500 3 1/4" NE but kept the 500/450 3 1/4" Magnum as it was, I felt, more useful, and it has a set of 375Flanged Mag barrels. Some days I want to kick myself....

I did like the 404 Jeffery I had 30yrs ago, don't know why I don't have one now. The 450/400 3" is nice too, but mine was a single.

Like Postman, I think they are all great. Especially with modern powder and projectiles.

I think it comes down to finding one (or some!) in a rifle you really like, that fits you and you enjoy loading and shooting it.


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Postman
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Rockdoc]
      #288664 - 04/10/16 11:30 AM

Good point Rockdoc. I don't have enough of a broad experience to have a meaningful choice, but reading Pierre van der Walt's books and others, the consensus is that all the big NE calibers function in pretty much the same performance envelope. ~ 500 grains at 2150 fps..... So the difference between them would seem to be defined more by the fit of the rifle to the individual if we consider that availability of brass and bullets vary by country, and by economic and political climate.

Call me a cynical heretic if you will, but my choice in calibers for "favourites" is more rifle centric, and I'll deal with the caliber as it's served as long as I feel I have a reasonable chance of finding brass, bullets, and load data......

I really sweated over my first big double in .470 because of cost and limited supply of ammo, brass, and mostly bullets. With a little effort, I found all fairly available, but certainly neither cheap, nor available at Wally World. Had to put some effort into looking for it.

Fast forward some, and I went off the rarely beaten path and got a bespoke rifle with two barrels sets, one in .450NE because I saw that Hornady was selling ammo and brass with reasonable distribution here in Canada at a few of the finer high end gun shops, and I ordered a second barrel set in .375 flanged magnum because I really wanted that caliber because it was flanged, reasonably heavy to take a wide variety of game from small to large, and I had easy access to all manner of bullets. Then I hit a 2 year issue finding brass. F*ck!!!!! I first found 40 rounds of loaded ammo 1500 miles away about 6 months after ordering the rifle, then I found another 5 rounds of old Kynoch ammo in an old dirt floor type of shop and of course I bought them - still unfired because I fear they are corrosive primed, but the brass was another 5 that I had. Then I found a shop that would order brass from overseas in London for me and I bought 100 pieces. And finally I found 200 pieces 2000 miles away in-country two years after I ordered the rifle.... Yep. It was not very available, but I am smitten with it and I have enough brass to last me a long time. Of note, both the .450 and .375 had lots and lots of bullets once I solved for brass and dies. The .470 bullet availabilty is much harder to find...... Available indeed, but not like the other two. For the .500NE I found that I can very easily turn .470 brass into .500 NE brass if need be, but the .500 bullets are no more available than the .470 bullets. For the .500, purpose built brass and the dies were no more challenging to find than the .470, but again not too common.

So, I have no qualms about taking my bespoke rifle hunting overseas, but will probably hedge my bets and take a .375 H&H with me as antidote for lost luggage and lost ammo..... and so it goes!!!

But does availability modify what my favorite caliber might be? If I find a hammer rifle that I really love that fits me and it comes in .500-450 which by the way I have yet to find brass or dies for, I would buy it and if the rifle fit better than all my others, well then that caliber might become my favorite once I got dies and a supply of brass......

Edited by Postman (04/10/16 12:49 PM)


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Rockdoc
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Postman]
      #288668 - 04/10/16 01:11 PM

Great post.

We are fortunate here in Australia as we can easily buy Woodleigh projectiles and Bertram cases. Although I have had better luck with Norma brass in my 375 Flanged Mag and the older Bertram 500/450 3 1/4" brass is too thick in the neck for the H&H without being reamed, the new stuff being just right!

When I started with nitro stuff some thirty years ago it was a different story and I am sure that limited my purchases. The 404J was reasonably easy with relatively cheap RWS factory ammo (a lot hotter than the old Kynoch stuff) and locally made reloading dies. I think I must have used RWS projectiles, I can't remember now. The 12 bore WR Explora (WR equivalent of the H&H Paradox) was problematical, but someone provided brass cases and lead bullets, and of course shotgun ammo was easily available.

Postman, do you have a Big Game Rifle Club there? If you do and can get to one, there is a wealth of knowledge and usually a source of components. I know I have benefitted from advice from some of the Qld BGRC members, especially Graeme Wright.

I just need to get out and shoot more! Here in the state of NSW, almost all ranges have a caliber limit of 8mm, not so in Qld. The nearest for me is about 4hrs drive unfortunately.

Cheers, Chris


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Postman
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Rockdoc]
      #288670 - 04/10/16 01:36 PM

There are no big bore rifle clubs over here in Canada. The SCI Canadian chapters are a source of cameraderie that would have some members that would have some degree of big bore experience, but not for shooting big bore competitions. Source of components is a shared challenge here. There are absolutely no manufacturers within Canada that dabble in the big bore market, and very few importers/distributors of brass and bullets that service the big bore market.

The government sanctioned (but privately run) gun clubs are the go to places for organized shooting sports, but the reality here is that big bores are not very common here, ergo the clubs will shoot 3 gun and IPSC, Bullseye, and silhouette competitions, but there would be near zero prospect competitors for the big bore game. Australia has the distinct benefit of being the beneficiary of India's offloading of lots of classic big double rifles. Likewise, the USA is a bastion of all things that go bang, including a healthy market penetration of big bores. Canada is painfully separated from the US market and does not share the free firearms love of the States to the south of us. The US has all manner of export controls, one of which requires a prospect exporter to pay a significant $$ransom/export permit fee to export ammo and guns/gun parts, which eats into the profit of any potential importers, which limits the supply of goods coming out of the US to only mainstream stuff where exporter/importer can make enough volume to make it worth while. Canada of course has its own pouty form of gun control,and up until recently a registration regime, all of which adds to the headache.

So for me, I'm a bit of a stranded asset. I am a member of three gun clubs, and each and every time I show up with my doubles, I attract attention when the concussion of firing the large bores make everyone on the line stop and question "what the f*uck was that??? Occasionally, I'll get an inquisitive mind ask me what gauge my double shotgun is, very telling of the general knowledge and awareness here that such a thing as double rifles are a form of firearm......

So. I'm pretty much on my own. The Internet is my friend, and the good publications that are available (again sourced with some focused effort) help me along. i can't even begin to effectively describe my affinity for this forum and the good members here for helping me navigate the world of big bore double rifles. It is a resource valuable beyond description. I have lurked for a very long time and eventually felt I could participate in some of the discussions to a small degree, ever and always limited by my personal experience and knowledge.

Edited by Postman (04/10/16 01:58 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Postman]
      #288679 - 04/10/16 04:25 PM

12 bore nitro. See Ed Huble's Thread for loading info.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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470evans
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: DarylS]
      #288702 - 05/10/16 01:07 AM

500/450, 470 and 12 bore paradox because those are the three I have now.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Postman]
      #288706 - 05/10/16 03:00 AM

Quote:

Good.......(snip)......If I find a hammer rifle that I really love that fits me and it comes in .500-450 which by the way I have yet to find brass or dies for, I would buy it and if the rifle fit better than all my others, well then that caliber might become my favorite once I got dies and a supply of brass......



Postman,
.500-.450 3 1/4" are easy enough to form from readily (at least in the USA) available Jamison .416-.500
True, the headstamp will not be correct and the cases will be a couple of hunredths short of 3 1/4" but like the .470 to .500 conversion it results in quite usable brass.
Of course Bertram does make proper .500-.450 3 1/4 headstamped brass, but they are out of stock at US suppliers and very expensive
Dies? RCBS/Huntington........
Actually I see that Griffin & Howe New Jersey has a set of RCBS for $100.00 listed on Guns International
- Mike


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Postman
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: 3DogMike]
      #288707 - 05/10/16 04:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Good.......(snip)......If I find a hammer rifle that I really love that fits me and it comes in .500-450 which by the way I have yet to find brass or dies for, I would buy it and if the rifle fit better than all my others, well then that caliber might become my favorite once I got dies and a supply of brass......



Postman,
.500-.450 3 1/4" are easy enough to form from readily (at least in the USA) available Jamison .416-.500
True, the headstamp will not be correct and the cases will be a couple of hunredths short of 3 1/4" but like the .470 to .500 conversion it results in quite usable brass.
Of course Bertram does make proper .500-.450 3 1/4 headstamped brass, but they are out of stock at US suppliers and very expensive
Dies? RCBS/Huntington........
Actually I see that Griffin & Howe New Jersey has a set of RCBS for $100.00 listed on Guns International
- Mike




Hi 3DogMike:

Many thanks for those leads!!! That is really helpful. As far as the brass resizing of the .500-416, I was wondering about that for some time. As far as I can find, the dimensions of the rim and case head of the original .500-450 are a couple of thou smaller than the current .500-416. Is it a simple matter of running the lubed .500-416 cases into the f/l .500-450 sizing die, or does both the case head and rim need a thou or two turned off? It looks like it should work without lathe surgery unless the .500-450 chamber happens to be a little tight.... what do you think?

Best regards,

Postman


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Postman]
      #288708 - 05/10/16 05:05 AM

It's possible there is enough 'slop' in chambers to make it a non-problem, Postman. A bird in hand for testing would help answer that. I am hesitant in turning brass of any case head, even though Donnelly did it with the immensely strong .348 Winch. cases.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Postman]
      #288714 - 05/10/16 06:08 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

As far as I can find, the dimensions of the rim and case head of the original .500-450 are a couple of thou smaller than the current .416-.500. Is it a simple matter of running the lubed .426-.500 cases into the f/l .500-450 sizing die, or does both the case head and rim need a thou or two turned off? It looks like it should work without lathe surgery unless the .500-450 chamber happens to be a little tight.... what do you think?

Best regards,

Postman



I have a Webley & Scott .500-.450 double hammer rifle made in 1899 and the Jamison .416-.500 necked up chamber and headspace just fine. A couple of thou (if any) rim/case head just doesnt make any difference in my rifle.
I run the .416-.500 over a .44 mag .429 expander first then a Lyman M type expander to .458, after that run thru the full length sizer and there you have it. First firing takes care of any leftover shoulder differences.
Could also just run standard .470 or .465 cases thru a full length die. Probably would not even need neck reaming?
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields


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500Boswell
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Huvius]
      #288717 - 05/10/16 06:47 AM

500 NE with a soft or solid gets everything done ,or the 450 NE ,mainly because of countless different projs you can use if you need that

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Porker
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Reged: 05/01/16
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Re: favorite nitro caliber [Re: Huvius]
      #289307 - 22/10/16 04:49 PM

450/400 for its versatility, almost got mine saved up for...

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