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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles

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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: GPJ12345]
      #264194 - 26/04/15 03:30 AM

Hallo Daryl/members

I opened up the magazine well of a 98 Mauser action today to accept a 8x68 round , at least I will be able to get to 89.6 mm that is without opening and milling the stripper-clip opening ...according to the knowledgeable members the optimum length is 91 mm to seat the bullet out for optimum performances with a premium bullet. I am 1.4 mm away from the 91 mm seating dept...will this at least give me good performance? I think I will be able to remove at least another 1 mm of the steel to get near the 91 mm objective...I need to keep in mind this is a high performance caliber and I need as much strength in the action as possible...

Regards

Gert


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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: GPJ12345]
      #264203 - 26/04/15 07:16 AM


Here is a nice Steyr Mannlicher Luksus in 8x68

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=5421361


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: GPJ12345]
      #264211 - 26/04/15 09:37 AM

Quote:

Hallo Daryl/members

I opened up the magazine well of a 98 Mauser action today to accept a 8x68 round , at least I will be able to get to 89.6 mm that is without opening and milling the stripper-clip opening ...according to the knowledgeable members the optimum length is 91 mm to seat the bullet out for optimum performances with a premium bullet. I am 1.4 mm away from the 91 mm seating dept...will this at least give me good performance? I think I will be able to remove at least another 1 mm of the steel to get near the 91 mm objective...I need to keep in mind this is a high performance caliber and I need as much strength in the action as possible...

Regards

Gert




Gert- will your allowable 89.6 mm oal length give you similar performance to the 91mm length? I should certainly think so - you would NEVER see the difference on game, that is for certain. Even 100fps will not show a difference over normal hunting ranges - with the same bullet, even to 1,000yards where the difference might be 20fps if that much. I'd have to check the program, just not that interested in those ranges, expect perhaps on gophers or ground hogs - or maybe bad guy targets.
Daryl

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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pulki
.224 member


Reged: 14/02/05
Posts: 6
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: DarylS]
      #264216 - 26/04/15 10:27 AM

Gert. : if this can be of any use.
The OAL of a RWS 180 grs. KS cone point is 83,5 mm.
I have loaded 200 grs Speer , 200 Nos. Part. , with OAL s of 85 mm. ; 180 Nos. Bal. Tip at 87 mm , 220 grs Hornadys at cannelure OAL 87 mm.and the longish
Hornady BTHP Match with OAL 89 mm. Using 4350 powders there iwas no compressed load.
I do not have at hand load data of 220 Woodleighs and Sierras that I have used in plains game with devastating effect.
Pulki.


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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: pulki]
      #264246 - 27/04/15 04:22 AM

Thank you Pulki, Darryl, then it seems I am chasing shadows...it then is a myth that seating out the bullet to 91 mm will not give you really a lot more velocity than using ammo bought from the gun shop shelf...still there are people who are adamant about the necessity to build a 8x68 on a magnum action only...????? Will it be better to use a ZZK 602 action than a standard Mauser 98 action for better feeding instead to use muzzle velocity as the rationale ?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: GPJ12345]
      #264255 - 27/04/15 09:48 AM

If you are able to safely seat the bullet out to a longer OAL - that is, if the chamber has enough leade or freebore to allow the longer length without interfering with the rifling (Jamming into it) - THEN the increase in length, will increase the usable case capacity - but by how much?

That depends.

You would have to weigh the different case capacities to find out, weight-wise, just how much of an improvement you made through long seating.

Seems to me, an increase of 4gr. of capacity, is equal to approximately 50-100fps when both were loaded to the same pressure.

Now, simply seating the bullet out as far as possible and using the same load as before, will drop the pressure and velocity as you have technically increased the powder chamber- this is only if the bullet is not NOW jammed into the throat. If it is, pressure will be increased, possibly to dangerous levels - not a working load any longer. If the bullet can be seated out and still be clear of the lands (throat) by .020" or so, then you may load it to normal pressure and improve the performance, probably by a small amount that may or may not be noticeable anywhere other than on a chronograph and even then, it might show no change.

Lee Factory Crimp Dies allow crimping bullets over shank portions as this system uses a collet which impresses the crimp, not a tightening of the seating die's interior with can cause case buckling.

I do not believe there are any hard and fast rules regards expected improvements. One experiments and takes his chances - might or might not.

Much also depends on the powder used, how efficient it is in THAT case with THAT bullet and THAT primer & as well, how efficient THAT cartridge is in the first place - how close it is to being too big to allow small changes in powder capacity to make any noticable difference in performance.

Playing over seating depths, is almost like playing with wildcats. We IMPROVE a case, straight it's sides and sharpen it's shoulder and raise it's capacity by about 10%-15% well over 10gr. increase and sometimes it only develops 100fps more speed - or perhaps only gives us the same speed as before, but having to use more powder to do it such as my .220 Swift IMP - a full 8gr. increase in capacity, no increase in speed - oh well.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: DarylS]
      #264269 - 27/04/15 04:12 PM

Thank you Daryl

Yes , you have confirmed it with your informative reply, I am chasing shadows to think seating out to 91 mm will be beneficial , creating more velocity and flat shooting...I am sure it will create more problems than solutions...I would rather focus on trajectory and learn to know my 8x68 caliber rifle better by shooting it out to longer distances....maybe I should keep in mind some wise words a person once said.."why fix an engine while it is not broken?"
I will keep to a standard 8x68 hunting rifle and enjoy it for what it is intended to do...taking longer shots with excellent penetration on larger plains game...

Thank you kindly to all members for your input to provide insight into this subject.

Regards

Gert


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: GPJ12345]
      #264293 - 28/04/15 01:06 AM

Seating the bullet out to properly fit the chamber can be a real advantage in terms of accuracy, especially if one is prone to attempting long range shots.

However long the throat is in your chamber, will determine where the bullet should be seated, for best accuracy, that is. Oft times there is not enough room in a magazine, to seat the bullet out far enough to touch or come close to the rifling origins (throat), thus short seating of THAT bullet prevents it from being seated for it's best accuracy potential. Seated to factory specified lengths is safe, but not optimum for accuracy.

The 8x68S is quite awesome as it is, and needs no 'help' in ballistics. There are always tricks like seating out to fit your action, that can help in the quest for accuracy.

If the rifle and/or shooter is only capable of shooting 2" to 3" at 100yards with the use of a bench or table, that combination of rifle and/or shooter is not a 300yard game killing combo, let alone further than that.


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pulki
.224 member


Reged: 14/02/05
Posts: 6
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: GPJ12345]
      #267225 - 01/07/15 04:32 AM

Gert - Looking forward on an update of your 8x68S proyect.

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Old_Glass
.300 member


Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 113
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: pulki]
      #267227 - 01/07/15 06:06 AM

I have a Sauer 202 in 8x68S. Have never fired it, but it would slay anything on legs.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: Old_Glass]
      #267265 - 02/07/15 01:43 AM

With the appropriate bullet, Old Glass, definitely yes. Depending on the game, one might want to slow it down a bit.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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CZ_hunter
.275 member


Reged: 08/07/13
Posts: 70
Loc: Prague, Czech Republic
Re: 8x68S caliber hunting rifle popular? [Re: GPJ12345]
      #267980 - 14/07/15 07:07 AM

Obviously the 8x68 is a well thought, hard hitting long range cartridge but for some reason it has never caught my attention. Instead I am very much into 300 H&H, both magnum and flanged.

It also suprised me to see that the 8x68 still has some followers in Africa, as I feel there is a significant growing interest among hunters in the clasic 300 H&H Mag.

Would you confirm this?

--------------------
CZ


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