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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

4 Bore Round Found !
#262628 - 21/03/15 10:44 PM

I finally found & bought a 4 Bore rifle cartridge for my collection, in fact I could of had 2, this old Kynoch round & one of the later Aussie loaded cartridges, but I chose the Kynoch as more original & that is the brand I'm collecting if I can !

Now just need a 2 Bore then a 1 Bore Gatling round .

That's a 577/450 also by Kynoch for a size comparison

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A10ACN
.300 member

Reged: 30/01/05
Posts: 198
Loc: USA

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: Sarg]
#262630 - 22/03/15 12:45 AM

Way cool!

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: A10ACN]
#262642 - 22/03/15 03:21 AM

I don't understand - that bloke in the video said his .905 cal. was the largest CF rifle ctg. and rifle ever made - Hmmm ---- Actually I do understand, he's an idiot.
lol

I had always thought 1 bore, was 1.5, however my Chart shows 1 bore as being 1.671".

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: DarylS]
#262686 - 23/03/15 04:53 AM

must be the top of your collection

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: lancaster]
#262722 - 24/03/15 07:01 AM

Yes Lancaster it surely is, I did find a 700NE to but it was not a Kynoch head stamp, if indeed there is such a case & funds would let me buy only this round really !

Having said that I meet a chap who said he has a Copper Tubed projectile 4 bore cartridge, so I may up grade if it is Kynoch head stamp to !

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TH44
.375 member

Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: Sarg]
#262916 - 30/03/15 12:11 AM

I picked this case up at a local show - not as nice as yours, possibly a brass shotgun case??

I had a conical slug so "cheated" my way to a 4 bore round. They are so rare I felt justified

The conical slug fitted perfectly

With my only othe 4 bore, a cardboard shotgun case, and an 8 bore from my H&H Ball gun

TH44

Edited by TH44 (30/03/15 12:13 AM)

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Rookandrabbit
.224 member

Reged: 30/01/15
Posts: 26
Loc: United kingdom

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: TH44]
#262918 - 30/03/15 03:23 AM

Wow that is an excellent find in makes the 577/450 look like a bottlenecked pistol round bet that conical bullet weighs over one thousand grains??

--------------------
Steve

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: TH44]
#262940 - 30/03/15 09:02 PM

Nice cartrigde you have there & I would still love to collect it as well, it is very similar to my 8bore, 10bore & 12bore cases, I think you are right that these are brass shotgun case's but your one looks the part with the nice slug you found .

Well done !

Im not sure what the slug weights in this case of mine ?

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TH44
.375 member

Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: Sarg]
#262953 - 31/03/15 03:43 AM

Hi Sarg

The conical ball in mine weighs 1820 grains compared to the nomnal Round Ball of 1750 grains if pure lead, although WW Greener lists 1510 grains, probably an alloy

Either would let you know you had fired it with a load of 12 - 14 grains BP behind it!!

Good luck in your collecting

Tony

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4200
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: TH44]
#262966 - 31/03/15 08:35 AM

Now that is one BIG sucker!
I knew they were big, but to put it into perspective with a 450-577MH - they're bloody huge!
Would certainly take some Dutch courage to fire 1820gn at say 1400fps of lead with 12 drams of BP 328gn.
Now correct me if I'm wrong here gents, in a 18lb rifle the muzzle energy would be just shy of 8200ftlbs, but this would mean recoil energy would be 308ftlbs using Hatchers formula?
I know the old BP's had terrible recoil - but that much???
Am I calculating this correctly
93x64mm

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sauerdb
.224 member

Reged: 09/12/13
Posts: 14
Loc: Atlanta, GA

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: 93x64mm]
#262970 - 31/03/15 01:45 PM

I've tried some online calculators and they're giving 270-300 ft-lbs, which is still brutally high. 8200 ft-lbs of energy might be much though. Comparing 8 bores what I've read shows 5000 to 6000 ft-lbs. I don't know of any chrono recordings for a 4 bore express round.

So for best case, assuming a svelte 1600 grain projectile and 6000-7000 ft-lbs KE with 20 lbs rifle, that works out to 190 to 227 ft-lbs recoil. Still higher than any Nitro Express round.

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AkMike
.416 member

Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: sauerdb]
#262973 - 31/03/15 06:00 PM

Here's a pair of 4 bores next to a 450 NE a 9.3X74 and a 30-06

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"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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AkMike
.416 member

Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: AkMike]
#262974 - 31/03/15 06:06 PM

For a better idea about the mighty 4 ore.

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: AkMike]
#262975 - 31/03/15 08:56 PM

That's some nice looking gear there !

Seems a bit chilly that day by the looks to .

Say Mike how long is that case, it looks a little shorter than this one, this is a 4 1/4in case ?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: Sarg]
#262978 - 01/04/15 03:31 AM

WW Greener's "recoil machine" registered up to 200 pounds recoil. It is pictured in his 9th Edition of "The Gun and it's Development".

The 4 bore, with a 12 dram (328gr.) load was enough over 200pounds that it broke the machine. He did not get to test the full 16 dram load of 437gr. This,I believe was with the 1/4 pound round ball of 1,750gr. - but might have been the slightly heavier conical.

Some of the extra recoil of a black powder load, is due to the fact that 56% to 57% of the charge weight, remains as solid waste and is ejected out the muzzle with with "ball". Some small amount stays inside, making a thin layer inside the bore, being then known as fouling. The ejected waste adds to the projectile weight - ie: 'ejecta' as far as recoil is concerned, just as wads also add to the projectile's weight.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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AkMike
.416 member

Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: DarylS]
#262979 - 01/04/15 03:59 AM

Sarg, I don't know for sure but IIRC it's the 4" case. It was a little chilly during that event. Maybe a -10c with a breeze.

That single shot has been seen down in Oz by Pato and a few others when we went there a few years ago.

It did quite well on buff!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: AkMike]
#263123 - 04/04/15 05:34 PM

Quote:

That single shot has been seen down in Oz by Pato and a few others when we went there a few years ago.

It did quite well on buff!

Well it should have Mike, it is a Elephant round & more than needed on Buff !

Not saying that is reason not to use it on Buff, the more the better, IF you can hit them !

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weimar
.224 member

Reged: 03/08/09
Posts: 8
Loc: UK

Re: 4 Bore Round Found ! [Re: Sarg]
#264273 - 27/04/15 07:52 PM

I have three rounds 4b by H&H & 1 fired round 4 1/4 in case 2000 grns solid lead bullet in original H & H REWA box.

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