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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Forum Photos & Archive
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chapmen
.300 member


Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 234
Loc: Middle of germany
Late mauser under french occupation
      #260325 - 12/02/15 04:33 AM

one of the very rare mauser made between 1945 and 1946 under french occupation:









--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

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dons
.333 member


Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: chapmen]
      #260333 - 12/02/15 09:49 AM

What is the Serial Number ? The stock contour and checkering pattern begin to vary in 1946 from war time production. Probably new stock makers replaced the old workers.

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9041
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: dons]
      #260368 - 12/02/15 08:15 PM

yes "serial numbers" looking very confusing

do you have the history of this rifle? where was it the last 70 years?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: lancaster]
      #260369 - 12/02/15 08:53 PM

The serial number here is A 37. Jon Speed listed numbers from the same period A 36, A 37 and A 55 in OOSR. The other numbers are the usual commercial Mauser markings for barrel dimensions: 7.89 mm bore/land diameter, 8.2 mm groove diameter, rifling twist one turn in 240 mm. Proof date 3 46 = March 1946.

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chapmen
.300 member


Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 234
Loc: Middle of germany
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: kuduae]
      #260374 - 12/02/15 10:41 PM

SN is 10343.
A37 is not the sn, speed shows an barrel that is also stamped A37 with an complete other sn.

Another interesting thing is that the barrel is signed "Marholdt Peterlongo Innsbruck".
I think the engraving was also done by Peterlongo.

The gun was in use by an hunter, but there is no info since when. It comes up after he died.

--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

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dons
.333 member


Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: chapmen]
      #260378 - 12/02/15 11:15 PM

The barreled action was probably sourced from Mauser during the occupation time period, but the rifle was not a product of the Mauser factory in Oberndorf. The S/N and Peterlongo markings tells us that.

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: dons]
      #260379 - 12/02/15 11:20 PM

Marholdt Peterlongo was in business up to 1970-73 so maybe the rifle go through the shop some times after and get the marks than. the 346 proofmark speaks clearly for the time it was made.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (13/02/15 12:01 AM)

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chapmen
.300 member


Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 234
Loc: Middle of germany
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: dons]
      #260381 - 12/02/15 11:36 PM

Quote:

The barreled action was probably sourced from Mauser during the occupation time period, but the rifle was not a product of the Mauser factory in Oberndorf. The S/N and Peterlongo markings tells us that.



In fact Jon Speed tells another story. He reported only rifles proofed 5 and 6 1946.
This rifle is 3- 1946.

So it would be great if you can give more infos why this sn says that it is not Mauser made.

--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

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dons
.333 member


Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: chapmen]
      #260393 - 13/02/15 02:38 AM

The French occupation of the Mauser factory began in May 1945 and continued until July 1946. The barrel is marked within that time period (346) and should have carried the original Mauser serial number sequence (126XXX) if in fact it was assembled at the Oberndorf factory. Also, the stock does not appear to have the typical factory characteristics. I believe the rifle was assembled in Innsbruck by Peterlongo using original Mauser parts and stamped with his own S/N as was the practice with many guild makers. Perhaps Axel can comment with his opinion.

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: dons]
      #260398 - 13/02/15 03:13 AM

3 46 is certainly the proof date. 10343 can not be a post-WW2 Mauser serial number, as it would date to 1905. Even if the last Digit is lost and the number is really 10343x, it would date to 1930. So it is most likely a Peterlongo number. Not only the engraving is not Mauser factory original, but the stock, especially the foreend, seems to be reworked from the Mauser B pattern w.Roell adhered to. It seems to have been slimmed down, the "Schnabel" tip more pronounced, and checkered as an afterthought. The Röll assembled rifle, or the brreled and proofed action and preshaped stock, may well have been brought by a French officer to Peterlongo,s shop,then run by Herbert Mahrholdt, for customisation and assembly. Remember, both Oberndorf a.N. and Innsbruck were in the French occupation Zone in 1946.

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chapmen
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Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 234
Loc: Middle of germany
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: kuduae]
      #260399 - 13/02/15 03:21 AM

I wait for better pics and will ask Jon what he thinks about this rifle.


--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

Edited by chapmen (13/02/15 03:29 AM)

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9041
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Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: chapmen]
      #260406 - 13/02/15 05:22 AM

have not notice the engraving before
when Peterlongo in Innsbruck/Tirol added something to this rifle it was the chamois

Hurra die Gams





and the rest of the engravings

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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chapmen
.300 member


Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 234
Loc: Middle of germany
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: lancaster]
      #260407 - 13/02/15 06:03 AM

For my opinion the whole engraving was done by Peterlongo, it is absolutely typical
for his work.

--------------------
some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de

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Forestboy
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Reged: 11/06/16
Posts: 6
Loc: Germany
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: chapmen]
      #284076 - 18/06/16 02:09 AM

Hello gents,
the new owner of the old lady with the unclear history is join the forum.
Some fact´s about, the rifel was proofed in Oberndorf am Neckar as you can see at the marks.
The profmark deer steeg(?) is now the mark from the proofhouse at Ulm.
The lady was asembeld from Wather Röll you can see about his mark.
This old Lady stand´s ower 2 year at my "homegunshop" and i turn around but i don´t buy it.
Then i get a heard and buy it for 250€ a very fear price.I dosen´t carry she at home i had no "Jagdschein" and back in my car. Minutes after i was went out the shop, there were some people how wanted a lower price, cut the barrel, mounted a eaimpoint and give the old lady a plastic stock!

But it was save at me! The shop ownern told me the story and she doesn´t give the lady away for a higher price, she said it was sold basta!

The ownern befor me buy the rife at the 60tes as a normal better austrian mauser, but now he died befor i could ask him more about the Lady.

The lady loves S&B mun with 12,7 gr. SPC bullets and RWS TmR 12,7 gr. she get a new/old class a Zeiss 1,5-6x36 ABS 1 how was mounted from my gun smith wit a SEM.

Have a nice day Chriss

Edited by Forestboy (18/06/16 02:14 AM)

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: Forestboy]
      #284872 - 05/07/16 07:53 AM

I can confirm that post-war Wather Röll rifles were 126- serial numbered and also stamped "W.Röll", or similar, (on the barrel, but hidden inside the stock). By contacting the proof office at Ulm, (who stamped the antler proof mark and date), they should have the original record of the serial number and, most importantly, who submitted it for proof. Perhaps Peterlongo purchased the action afterwards?

Here's some notes I've saved:

W. Röll made that rifle for a French officer circa 1946/47.
The 2nd DB of Leclerc (1) occupied Oberndorf first before French put their own administration at head of the works, Walther Röll and Walther Gehmann choosing freely to work with the new occupying forces.
During that period many sporters were made for French officers, using disparate parts in stock, and amazingly the firm accounts department took great care to invoice every rifle ordered by Frenchmen for their own use !


In 1942, before the battle of Stalingrad, the Nazis still felt to be future winners of WW2. Mauser, Oberndorf never stopped making civilian sporters. According to Jon Speed's "Mauser-Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles" they made about 1300 sporters in 1940, 1000 in 1941, 250 in 1942, 350 in 1943, 155 in 1944 and 135 from 1945 to 1950 under French occupation. Later, Walter Röll, until 1946 head of the Mauser commercial shop, made at least another 1600 Röll-Mausers from leftover and new-made parts until 1965. (Kuduae 11/2013 Double Gun Forum).

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Forestboy
.224 member


Reged: 11/06/16
Posts: 6
Loc: Germany
Re: Late mauser under french occupation [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #285301 - 16/07/16 05:15 AM

Small up date,
The old lady and I have just made the Schießnadel, a german test for hunters. The Lady made me proude the five round groups were on a 2€ coin. We need five rounds on the sitting fox on 100 meters sitting schootpsition and 5 rounds standing on a stock schootpsition of 100 meters on the Rehbock (roahbock??!):-?.
Have a nice weekend

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