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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
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Loc: Georgia, USA

404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag
#258180 - 23/12/14 01:33 PM

I was wondering if any of you ever load 416 Rem mag down to 404 jeffrey levels. If so, would the case capacity be close enough to use 404 data in the 416 case. I would assume they are close enough in capacity for this to work without having too little powder in the case for uniform loads. Thoughts?

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Rigby270
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Reged: 24/09/14
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: TOBY458]
#258193 - 24/12/14 12:54 AM

QL suggests. Case capacity of 107g for the 416 and 113.3g for the Jeffrey... the rest is maths.

Again, quoting from QL, 72g H 4350 should produce 2128mv in the 416 and 2073mv for the Jeffrey (assuming .416 Hornady DGS x 400g projectiles are used in both calculations).

N.B. Figures offered only by way of comparison.... powder burn factor not recalibrated !

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JH

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Ripp
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: Rigby270]
#258216 - 25/12/14 12:49 AM

I've been using a .416 Rem in one rifle or another for the past 10 years of so..have never tried this..thanks for the info..might give it a try..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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TOBY458
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: Ripp]
#258352 - 29/12/14 10:51 AM

Thanks for the replies. I figured the two cartridges had similar capacity.

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albertan
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: TOBY458]
#259626 - 29/01/15 04:05 PM

The best commercial load data I have seen for the .404 comes from Hornadys' latest loading manual. They claim that Reloder 17 was the best powder in their test rifle (a CZ 550) with their bullets.

Their maximum load with Reloder 17 and their 400 grain bullets was 84.0 grains for 2350 out of a 24 inch barrel. Their maximum loads from the various 4350's are as follows:
H-4350 78.9 grains for 2200 fps
Accurate 4350 80.9 grains for 2250 fps
IMR 4350 83.6 grains for 2250 fps

Powders that are similar in burn rate to Reloder 17 would include Vihta Vouri N 550, Norma URP, and Hodgdon powders' Hybrid 100. Their are of course others that are near by in burn rate. Try Vihta Vouri's and Norma's websites for loading data.

Chronograph your loads. If they exceed 2200-2300 fps by much back down. The .404 is a wonderful cartridge, but it is not a .416 Weatherby.

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DarylS
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: albertan]
#259651 - 30/01/15 03:26 AM

JJDonnelly lists the case capacity of the .404 Jeffery (.520" shoulder) Rimless as being 115gr. water.

The .416 Rigby is listed at 132.56gr. and the WTBY should be about the same as the .416/378, at 140.8gr. water. The .416 Remington should be about 108gr., same as the .416 Barnes Supreme.

The .416 Howell, using the .404 case necked down with a shoulder diameter of .515" and OAL of 2.55", is listed at 100.78gr.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TOBY458
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Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: DarylS]
#259907 - 03/02/15 12:14 PM

I went ahead and loaded my 416 Rem with a 404 level load this week. Using Nosler partitions, I went well below the starting load for the 416 Rem with RL15 powder. My normal load is 79 grains for approx 2400 fps. I went all the way down to 70 grains which is indeed a suggested 404 load in the Barnes manual. With this load the recoil level is significantly reduced. This charge weight in the 404 is listed at 2150 fps or so. I'm guessing I'm somewhere around 2200 fps in the 416 Rem case. I will chronograph a few when the weather brakes here. Stay tuned.

Edited by TOBY458 (03/02/15 12:15 PM)

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albertan
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: TOBY458]
#259961 - 04/02/15 05:37 PM

Hornady uses upwards of 74 grains of Reloder 15 with their brass, their 400 grain bullets, and Federal 215 caps in .404 Jeffrey. They obtain 2200 fps. You are unwise to not chronograph your loads, or factory ammunition for that matter. You need a certain muzzle velocity for the bullet to do its thing. Being much over is dangerous in one sense, being much under is dangerous in another.

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TOBY458
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: albertan]
#260701 - 19/02/15 08:21 AM

Yes, I agree with the bullet needing the extra velocity for proper expansion. But, I mainly just wanted some slightly reduced loads to practice with, but still have a good hunting load as well. The Jeffery with it's 400 grain bullet at 2150 pretty much made a great name for itself at that power level. Seems it should do just fine today. My Sako AV only weighs 8lbs, so it's quite lively with the full power loads, to say the least.

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Caprivi
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: TOBY458]
#260720 - 19/02/15 03:11 PM

A friend here in town loads his (formerly mine) Vickers 404 with a home swaged 300ish gr bullet and 45gr AA5744. Does right at 2000fps and hits the sights at 40yds or so. He also used 25grs Trailboss with some sort of hand made cast wadcutter, again about 300grs. Does 1300fps and is super accurate chops a ugly hole in soft edible stuff.

--------------------
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NitroX
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: TOBY458]
#260722 - 19/02/15 04:52 PM

Quote:

Yes, I agree with the bullet needing the extra velocity for proper expansion. But, I mainly just wanted some slightly reduced loads to practice with, but still have a good hunting load as well. The Jeffery with it's 400 grain bullet at 2150 pretty much made a great name for itself at that power level. Seems it should do just fine today. My Sako AV only weighs 8lbs, so it's quite lively with the full power loads, to say the least.

Really what you want is reduced power loads not ".404 Jeffery" loads. The .404 loads at 400 grs/2,150 fps are the historical powered loads. Using modern powders the velocity achieved can be significantly higher. Up to, approaching 2,400 fps.

Quote:

JJDonnelly lists the case capacity of the .404 Jeffery (.520" shoulder) Rimless as being 115gr. water.

The .416 Rigby is listed at 132.56gr. and the WTBY should be about the same as the .416/378, at 140.8gr. water. The .416 Remington should be about 108gr., same as the .416 Barnes Supreme.

The .416 Howell, using the .404 case necked down with a shoulder diameter of .515" and OAL of 2.55", is listed at 100.78gr.

As Daryl points out here, the case capacity of the .404 is marginally greater than the .416 Rem Mag.

Also being slightly larger in calibre ie .423 than a .416 all other things if equal, the .416 would develop greater pressure from the same powder loading.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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eagle27
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: NitroX]
#260728 - 19/02/15 07:06 PM

I agree with everything John says. Forget about loading to another cartridge level what ever they may or may not have been. Different shaped and capacity cases with different diameter bullets and seating depths just does not translate to reduced load levels in another case and bullet size. Just select normal full performance loads for your 416 Rem Mag and then create reduced loads to the level you want in that cartridge. Dropping down in bullet weight will help in this regard if you want to use jacketed.

Personally to shoot a lot of 404 from my rifle I find cast bullets and light charges of fast powder (shotgun or pistol) the way to go. Easy on the shoulder, easy on the pocket, easy on cases and easy on the gun too. At this level or loaded up close to jacketed velocities, cast loads are effective on game.

A chronograph is really essential to be able to see what you are achieving and to predict bullet performance unless you have enough opportunities to shoot game to enable you to appraise performance in the field.

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DarylS
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Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: eagle27]
#260742 - 20/02/15 02:38 AM

This is good information and advice.

Quote:

Personally to shoot a lot of 404 from my rifle I find cast bullets and light charges of fast powder (shotgun or pistol) the way to go. Easy on the shoulder, easy on the pocket, easy on cases and easy on the gun too. At this level or loaded up close to jacketed velocities, cast loads are effective on game.

A chronograph is really essential to be able to see what you are achieving and to predict bullet performance unless you have enough opportunities to shoot game to enable you to appraise performance in the field.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
Posts: 206
Loc: Georgia, USA

Re: 404 Jeffrey Load Data for 416 Rem. Mag [Re: DarylS]
#260797 - 20/02/15 01:37 PM

I plan to shoot my 70 grain load through a chronograph as soon as I get mine back from a friend. I'm willing to bet I'll be somewhere around 2150 fps. Even at this reduced level, I'm still getting at least a 90% load density.I'll report my findings soon. Thanks for all the replies!

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